The requirements are??? Makes no sense!!!

[killerjoe]

The first requirement is 'You cannot have a big open area in your map more than 10000 cubes'. Area is squared and volume is cubed. So what is meant by the above wording. I have discovered that if you keep the floor space (area) the same but increase the volume that there comes a point where your map no longer fits quality requisites. Obviously, if a person is going to commit to spending their time building a map, it is helpful if the requirements are accurate and consistent and written whith clarity. So please will somebody clarify the requirements.

[jamz]

10,000 cubes is the area, not the volume. By 'open area' it means a 100x100 (or equivalent) cube area with no 'solid' cubes (defined by pressing the F key on your selected cubes.
Increasing the 'volume' by increasing the height will eventually violate the height check, which is different from the open area check.
Don't ask me how we have a height check in a 2D game. Magic, I guess. ;)

[MPx]

maybe you will find useful

[SELECT ALL] Code:

/showmapstats

[bommy]

Not the case. The problem with this map check is that the mean height remained below 30, the floor area remained the same. The only thing that altered was the volume. When the open area volume was increased, in part, a point was reached where the map was rejected for not meeting quality requisites. So must conclude volume is a requisite. The area referred to must be floorspace and not total surface area of the space. So yeah, should say 10,000 squares not cubes. Area is squared, volume is cubed.

[jamz]

In the context of AC, cube = square. It's nothing to do with mathematical calculations or geometry; in Cube games, each of those little squares is called a cube because, by default, they're displayed as 3D cubes.

[TheNihilanth]

It's an aberration and an abomination to say that a square is a cube if you try to assimilate it in a mathematical way. It's true.
But it is enough to deal with map creation in ac. If you want some sort of mathematical answer, then dive into the concept of heightfields, in short a heighfield is a one-to-one function [h: R^2 => N]. That is, in the plane XY for every square x and y you see in the editor there is one and only one height h. There are two heightfields, floor and ceiling, everything between them is what is rendered. Such function is the reason there cannot be rooms over rooms without using map models.

[Alien]

There should be "setting template (requirements) -> mapping" and not "mapping -> setting template (requirements) ". The current concept is wrong. It was created against certain maps with emotional thinking. For example if you want to create entity you would check all distances in "create method" and just suppress it. To solve map limits aprior instead of posterior wouldnt be so painfully and looks more professionally. The compatibility with old maps would be possible too. The real effect against wrong maps has master server moderation and modification of server offer. I can create shit in ac_complex,upload it and i will pass through all restrictions.

[pufig]

The first requirement is 'You cannot have a big open area in your map more than 10000 cubes'. Area is squared and volume is cubed. So what is meant by the above wording. I have discovered that if you keep the floor space (area) the same but increase the volume that there comes a point where your map no longer fits quality requisites. Obviously, if a person is going to commit to spending their time building a map, it is helpful if the requirements are accurate and consistent and written whith clarity. So please will somebody clarify the requirements.

luc@s (young developer assaultcube male from france) made restrictions and jamz accepted their,their reason for resctrictions- we hates new maps,we scared new maps, if you made something another but not this- ac_standartcrap - we hate you and your friends,our rules,if you not accept that,go away :)

[Luc@s]

luc@s made restrictions

no
they were implemented before i was even dev ya know

"we hates new maps,we scared new maps, if you made something another but not this- ac_standartcrap - we hate you and your friends,our rules,if you not accept that,go away :)"

yep that's why cleaner made akimbo and that's why we implemented auto dl. oh wait.

your maps are garbage, deal with it

[Alien]

It is very subjective to classify garbage all maps which dont pass through restrictions. So why you try to convert them ? If you restrict "smile" on painting picture, is Mona Lisa garbage ? It is very cruel for mappers who didnt know about your future steps in their time.

[Luc@s]

what... you're fine with pufig calling *all* the maps passing requisites standard crap, but you won't let me express my feelings about someone's maps in particular ?

[Waffles]

not the best place for critical thinking skills here lucas.

[#M|A#Wolf]

Someone please post Brahma's email so we can kindly send him our regards and opinions about this matter.

[Orynge]

THANKS OBRAHMA

[Undead]

what... you're fine with pufig calling *all* the maps passing requisites standard crap, but you won't let me express my feelings about someone's maps in particular ?

i think what he is trying to say, is that all the maps that are designed to imitate official maps are devoid of creativity. i am inclined to agree, although exceptions exist.

[MPx]

Just don't make map whit huge open space and you will be fine.

[SELECT ALL] Code:

/showstats 2

keep the wdq lower than 4000 (could be discussed)

[|HP|]

I switched off all the stuff that i learned over the years and im reading this thread as a new player and potential new mapper.



I think i will take an existing camper map and change it to "Camper_Ultra_Lag-Edition"

[MPx]

I think i will take an existing camper map and change it to "Camper_Ultra_Lag-Edition"

Don't forget the deep water.. :D

[|HP|]

I think i will take an existing camper map and change it to "Camper_Ultra_Lag-Edition"

Don't forget the deep water.. :D

oh yeah lol

[Cleaner]

luc@s (young developer assaultcube male from france) made restrictions and jamz accepted their,their reason for resctrictions- we hates new maps,we scared new maps, if you made something another but not this- ac_standartcrap - we hate you and your friends,our rules,if you not accept that,go away :)

Why do you think we spend countless hours on AKIMBO converting all the old stuff we can? Anyway, this is not what I wanted to say here...
You are wrong in thinking that restrictions were implemented with the idea of pissing huge maps makers off... These restrictions were set to avoid lag in the first place, boring it is to play on a laggy map don't you think? Imagine also newcomers struggling with lag, they not gonna think it's the map that's too big, they gonna think that this game is crap and leave forever!
So to achieve this map size limits was the solution, obviously huge maps have suffered from this but we have explained many many times that with AC the bigger was not the better.
A lot moan about these restrictions because they have a good machine and they don't lag at all but AC is also made for people who can't afford such and only have crappy equipment and it will for sure remain like this since it is the wish of the creators, so if you're looking at making AC look like some other games where you can evolve in an entire city that will simply not happen, we try very hard to do the best with what the engine can handle but it has it's limits.

[1Cap]

Often the limitation is in our way of thinking.

Surely map with less lag are great.
Surely you do not need water 30 feet deep. (but it was fun).

But, remove the flags in AC_DOUZE? lol
Well, ac_venison, it's official and is an example of map to powerful computers.

[TheNihilanth]

... but AC is also made for people who can't afford such and only have crappy equipment and it will for sure remain like this since it is the wish of the creators...

The following is not directed to you specifically, Cleaner, but to the people responsible of the application and maintenance of map restrictions:

Could you tell, please, what are the specs of the actual equipment you are doing the performance tests and development of assault cube?

* What's its CPU speed?
* How much RAM it has?
* What GPU it has?

I can see the bare minimum system requirements for assault cube on the wiki but I don't see anywhere what are the recommended system requirements to run AssaultCube for to get an optimal performance, I suppose such requirements for optimal performance are the machine specs in which you are developing on.
When you say 'lag' I suppose you mean the 'graphical lag', which in other words is the low number of frames per second (FPS) when the game runs such maps on the computer in which the game is being developed on.

So if you are measuring the performance of game with 'lag' or FPS, the natural question is to ask, What are the recommended FPS, according to your performance tests?

What are these hardware specs 'crappy' map makers should attain to fulfill the (until now) unknown optimal system requirements?

[killerjoe]

Iv'e seen just a meany people lag on maps for example ac_douze as camper and TwinTowers :p

[Orynge]

FPS lag, not ping lag.

[Mr.Floppy]

Just to clearify one thing about 'newer' vs. 'older' computers.

The cube engine is not a 64 bit application, therefore it doesn't take advantage of the 4 cores of a i5, for example, but only of one. Taken away some general enhancements on this technology, you basicaly will have the same performance on a pentium II. At this point you've got to know that one of the major bottlenecks of cube is located on CPU-side, insofar it doesn't matter what great graphics card you might have.

There might be similiar issues on the GPU-end of things. I do not know which version of OpenGL cube actually uses, but in case it is outdated some vital processions, which used to be hardware accelerated, could only be emulated on modern systems today. In other words, you'll get some extra load on the CPU, while this only can rely on one core as mentioned above.

I personally experienced this kind of issues with some DirectX-based games already, which will perform worse on my current system ( i5, Nvidia GTX 560 ti), than they ever did in the past. In fact, some of those AC maps in question did actually kill my performance (FPS < 30) on the beforementioned rig. I'm serious. Leave alone the render glitches, like disappearing faces on far distances , which will happen on any system as long as the responsible code doesn't change.

Finally, I'm not saying the current values are perfectly well evaluated and technically backed and sure this isn't the optimum-compromise. However, in general I still don't get the big deal about them and if you really wanted to have huger maps, you've got to dig deep into this very engine and find ways to optimise its rendering code, rather than complaining again and again.

[+f0r3v3r+]

Here-here!

Ask yourselves not what AssaultCube can do for you, but what can you do for AssaultCube?

[TheNihilanth]

[...]Finally, I'm not saying the current values are perfectly well evaluated and technically backed and sure this isn't the optimum-compromise[...]

Because of this, with no technical backup, I will take you asseverations with a copious amount of salt.

Mine is an honest question.

[pufig]

about all ur fps and long talking with boring developers,on my 3th
pc (NETBOOK! asus eeepc with video card intel 950 and i will take a 25-30fps on a twintowers,camper,and another maps) possible you all have a server videocard Radeon 8500 maded in 2001 year,stop talking guys,they likes talking about nothing,just they wanted forced you to stupid thing and their "looks are good"

[Alien]

but 20-30 fps isnt bad, i started to play this game with celeron 1GHz, 256 MB, Nvidia 64 MB and i had max 30 on all maps. i remember command /newmap size where i could define number max 10 i think, it was 100x bigger than ac_complex and it worked. wqd probably define shitness of map, count of entities and water, forest in map would kill everything.

http://assault.cubers.net/docs/mapediting4.html#wqd

[Mr.Floppy]

@+f0r3v3r+:
Not neccessarily like that. But, keep in mind AC is a hobby-ist project and such changes, like allowing huger open spaces, require a whole lot of work put into it, not just changing some values and then hope it will turn out right.
As far as I'm aware, there's no dev at the moment having enough time on hand, getting this done by his own.

@TheNihilanth:
Sorry, I don't get your point.

@pufig, Alien:
Not quite sure what's your point either. Though, in general anything below 30 FPS is going to be realised as choppy and therefore unacceptable for any first person shooter game. Simple as that.