Are you agree with banning poor maps?

[mhsaleh]

Hi all
I notice that some ac players go in a wrong way,why? because they just play and don't matter what are they playing, its not a Parkour game(and doesn't mean mean to not use move tricks) and its not Marathon run(and it doesn't mean don't use rifle run) and its not a camping game for drinking tea (and it doesn't mean don't use corners in chases) so btw we have to ban some maps if we think this game is about assault, i think there should be no camper map(although twin towers maps are somehow poor but good for snipe train) and there should not be Syria maps, crap maps with huge places for camp and just u have to use rifle run to escape, no real assault.

I post my mention here to notice what is other player's idea

Note: may we lose some players by banning crap maps but we save assault cube by that, anybody else who want can make a game for Parkour or run or other fantasy games but the game we play is "Assault Cube"

So you are agree with this restriction?

[D3M0NW0LF]

...i think there should be no camper map(although twin towers maps are somehow poor but good for snipe train) and there should not be Syria maps, crap maps with huge places for camp and just u have to use rifle run to escape, no real assault...

While I agree with the general idea of not having these types of maps in the maprot, I do not agree with fully outright banning a map, especially since there is no set defined list of attributes that makes a map "poor" or "crap". The idea of regulating maps hasn't exactly been a new thing either with that being said in mind. This is just my opinion though (and I'm sure quite a few may or maynot like my thought on this matter).

So, really two things need to happen:

A. Veteran mappers, and devs TOGETHER should come brainstorm, discuss, and post an agreed upon list of details that make a map "crap" or "poor", in detail. A great starting point would be to look at ac_elevation, and compare it to some maps. I forget who said it, but ac_elevation is the skeleton key to assaultcube's future (or something like that).


B. Server owners (that aren't already doing this) need to disable map uploads (exception: mapping servers) to either admins only, or themselves, and only add maps they deem good. I am not the first person to say this, nor will I be the last to suggest it. I myself am tired of a server rotating to something horrendous (in my eyes). Sure, there's always the argument of "go play on another server", but there's the point that could also be made as a counter argument; "make a private server" for these types of maps, give out connect, and let players that wish to play those maps, do so.


Once again, this is just my personal opinion on the matter, and to recap what I said

TL;DR

Spoiler

[SELECT ALL] Code:

I do not agree with banning maps all togther
I support maprot regulation
There must be a defined guide of features to avoid in your maps

Thank you for your time (even if you only glanced over this post).

~Keettu

P.S. Maps like doom, ctf_douze, or any modification of official ac maps are ILLEGAL, and are the real scum of the mapping world.
P.S. 2: I voted no

[|40+|Axel]

any prohibitions are the way to nowhere. How many people were going in ac before "perestroika" in those days when there was a Douze ctf and where are they all now, do you see a lot of newbies? you have your own tastes and preferences but do not need to spread them to other people,this you kill ac

[D3M0NW0LF]

any prohibitions are the way to nowhere. How many people were going in ac before "perestroika" in those days when there was a Douze ctf and where are they all now, do you see a lot of newbies? you have your own tastes and preferences but do not need to spread them to other people,this you kill ac

Key words here when it came to what I said

...any modification of official ac maps are ILLEGAL...

This includes ctf_douze in this current version, since douze does not support ctf natively anymore.

[|40+|Axel]

but I'm talking about time and that when the ctf on the douze was allowed
where those people who were in favor of bans, how are they spending their time now? definitely not in ac

[D3M0NW0LF]

but I'm talking about time and that when the ctf on the douze was allowed
where those people who were in favor of bans, how are they spending their time now? definitely not in ac

I wont disagree with you there. But I can't say they all left because douze ctf was removed. Some (like myself for two years) genuinely get burnt out, and move on to other things/games.

[mhsaleh]

Wait i think there is a mis-understanding |40+|Axel, we do not want to spread our preferences to anyone, we just want to remind why we play ac and why we joined here
If you read mapediting6 at your ac docs you will see this rule:
1-No dark corners/places for campers.
2-This is subject to discussion. You should provide some sniper spots, but players must have a chance to fight back by means of tactics. Don't build "sniper forts".
So we see there are some rules that have no dark spot and it's clear some maps do not use this rules obviously and in a bad way and I'm sorry for naming some maps because in my idea(not my preference) this maps are known as poor maps and there should be at least a confirmation to a map by an intelligent group that can discuss winch map is good and which map is poor and we need some standards for maps that shows the quality of maps, like lighting, idea of mapping( not just a copy of other map and etc....), the degree that players involved assault in that map and good parts for real assault(not only escape and not only camp), textures and .... .
after that we need to show rankings to players and let them select the map they like(i.e i see the map lighting grade is A and map involving of assault is B so i will choose the map for play and i will train on that), btw we need also the polls from players, so server owners can figure out to select which map for better feeling of ac playing and know their players preferences.
If assault cube is important, we couldn't say:"ac owners and ... will make decisions about it", as an ac player at least i have to know the rate of maps i play and i say if there is no prohibitions, other answers will come in this topic:why gema banned, why hackers banned? just because they want to make the game in the way they like? if we see a server full of cheaters, we will leave server and let them play because they like cheat and nobody will stand against them?
The banning of poor maps is like gema, they will gone from simple servers and go work on other place.
And don't forget we talk about maps ranking, it means some maps couldn't be totally banned but will be banned from most of servers and it's decision of server owners but some maps will be against a real full ban.

[mhsaleh]

i forget to say this but i prefer to make a new post instead of editing last post because have a different topic.
we don't need goofs with no change but we need goofs that can growth in ac.
there is 2 way for them to grow:
1-peoples like me that will ask stupid questions to find out truth and 90 percent will find the way but the wrong one!
2-making a easy way for everything in ac to understand(i.e. ac docs, ac wiki, ac forum and ...)

So as i know, we will never succeed until we scramble for what we want or buy the scrambles!

We will never succeed for tasting better ac experience until we scramble for changing our play better and force other people to change that

so may it seems impossible to force people to change their game behavior but the game should have some options that people cant escape from them, like what said before, like selecting good maps for game, like make training campaign mode for game and even training campaign mode for mapping(this 1 is for ac 2099 version lol!) and etc... its not hard to find the good tools for a better game but needs support from both side, players and ac devs and need managing and progress and its important because if the project failed, just we have failed on undone things and the total project wont be ruined
regards

[Marti]

Lol some random noob telling people what to do and what not. Glad to see nothing has changed

[mhsaleh]

yey glad... glad is good for u and u dont want to discuss and u will leave ac players against a dead game and you will clean all ideas so u r awesome good job man continue

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Lol some random noob telling people what to do and what not. Glad to see nothing has changed

yey and u know if some ppl  grow they have  to force their idea to u but we want to see a better game and u stop us by personality destruction and if we get wrong u will never show the right way hmm itz good and i know u will say try hard to play ac for better game and when u experienced enough u can talk more and after that u will ruin us like psy against all ppl and u have no respect for reviewers from n00bs like me to pros like undead and itz all the story that u r stand against changing and i think u dont read my bullshits bcuz u think i have no new speak..im stand here and could help u if u want ,not just me, all ac players want a better experience and they will scramble for that

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yey i use drugs like 1cap my drug is anger and ur drug is insult i think ur drug works better continue

[|40+|Axel]

Lol some random noob telling people what to do and what not. Glad to see nothing has changed

probably you mean me and you're right calling me noob, but I do not tell people what to do it's you wrong, but I state the fact that people leave the ac and the absence of influx new as a result of improvements and prohibitions

[mhsaleh]

We can change our minds and get it better why u think i know ac as a garbage?i love it and my best times r my plays with my friends...what about you pros? especially you Marti? will you change your idea about a human? i will accept any reasonable speak and say sorry to Marti against all if there is a reason that they want to stop speak by calling persons in bad way and they don't start with reasonable speaks.

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i think you forget the forum rules Marti

[|40+|Axel]

pair noobz questions:if you are not talking about a global ban on certain maps, what then to discuss? owners of servers do not have the ability to block the loading of maps or install a maprot?

[mhsaleh]

pair noobz questions:if you are not talking about a global ban on certain maps, what then to discuss? owners of servers do not have the ability to block the loading of maps or install a maprot?

first tell me how to clear the vote, i want to clear mis-understandings and how to change the name of topic, it seems u will discuss by topics and dont a have time to read my posts or think they are garbage

[|40+|Axel]

the moderator should help you

[mhsaleh]

ok idc about wut other guys think but pls listen...
We play ac for wasting time or we want enjoy a play and have good times?
If we look around for better experience of playing ac(for both group:goofs like me and pros like u) we don't need to categorize the maps and modes?we don't need same goal for each group of ac players?we dont need to modrate them?just we go like Sheep flocks to ac servers and don't agree each other so wut is it?its a good game experience?why there should be "inter" for pro players and other guys want to be a pro just waste their time t experience each way and after a hardcore they will see they are noob because their ac knowledge is low and after that why a mapper will send a map and everybody will call it in the way he/she like:best,crap,garbage,magic.... and no real standards? if ac is kindergarten, tell us to leave here

[|40+|Axel]

other people probably will answer all your questions, the only thing I can say is my opinion the people who close on the server so-called inter behave immorally and very suspiciously

[mhsaleh]

other people probably will answer all your questions, the only thing I can say is my opinion the people who close on the server so-called inter behave immorally and very suspiciously

TNX Axel, i see you are reasonable guy i hope other people behave like you to each other

[gy_be]

the only thing I can say is my opinion the people who close on the server so-called inter behave immorally and very suspiciously

Could you elaborate?

[Marti]

Nah i meant saleh when i said noob

I stopped reading his reply after he called 1cap pro

Also nice pm saleh. Seems u didnt do ur research lol

[1Cap]

[|40+|Axel]

the only thing I can say is my opinion the people who close on the server so-called inter behave immorally and very suspiciously

Could you elaborate?

Well, what do you need to explain about the difficult situation in the world-ISIS, etc?

[mhsaleh]

Nah i meant saleh when i said noob

I stopped reading his reply after he called 1cap pro

Also nice pm saleh. Seems u didnt do ur research lol

huhuhu I get angry hard and when I'm in anger i could not think correctly but I'm stand for main idea, and I'm trying to make some charts and plans for a good project hope guys help me for improvement, may i choose wrong way but actually the categorical thinking will never die and works for everything....
I don't want to make discussion boring anymore so you can close topic if you see there is no high necessity
for this kind of projects and ideas because out of here too many guys try hard for their project alone and I'm siting and watch the story

[Mr.Floppy]

The only types of maps (including their gfx) that should not be able to be loaded on a public server are
a. the flat-out broken ones and of course
b. any shit that beares legal issues (infringement, banned symbols, ...).

Anything else shouldn't be generally/globally banned and instead of someone sorting out the poor quality maps, we rather should implement a system, which labels the good maps as such and by that, provide us with meta info allowing to identify the good ones. (This would come in handy for something else I'll get to further below, split server browser, that is.)

Actually, by this definition I consider so-called GEMAs to be valid maps no less. Personally, I don't remotely enjoy that stuff. Nothing has changed here, but GEMA sure has its place in the cube universe and yeah, I used to go quite harsh on those in the past, I know, but let's just not go there...

In order to solve the most apparent problem, you could simply separate 'officially-encouraged-to-play-on' servers, that is, servers featuring maps of approved quality (here's the label thingy again!), from those fancy community stuff by adding another tab to the server browser. Splitting up the server browser may seem a little awkward considering the short list of active servers today. However, that way it will be abundantly clear to everyone, where one has to go to experience stock AssaultCube and where to find something different the community came up with, which naturally can't be expected to always meet 'official standards'. Though, maybe even pop a prompt up on the screen when changing to the community-tab, informing about exactly this, just like CS:GO is doing it.

Anyway, there already are measures in place, which prevent the hopelessly broken maps from being loaded. So there are indeed maps being 'banned' right now. Nothing new here. Frankly, the current system isn't the best, quite controversial for different reasons and as far as I know, has received some reworking in the next version, but I still believe we need it. In fact, in my opinion, any editor for any game should not allow the user building structures, which are not going to be computed correctly by the engine and leave the player with their game choking up or even worse. That's where the freedom of creativity hits its natural boundaries.

Anyway, believe me, we have had worse trash than anything being played today and there had been a time when that sort of crap started overshadowing the regular game and became a real issue. However, map quality alone won't explain the lack of players today, neither does the existence of restrictions. By the way, this myth, that is, map restrictions have killed the game, does by no means regard the complex situation back in the day and is just the easy way to point fingers at someone. To put it short, I strongly believe the core issue AC has been struggling with ever since the day it gained greater popularity (post version 0.93) is to cater to the 3 basic player types (casuals/competitives/creatives) equally and instead has been trying to find that one compromise somewhere in between. I didn't know any better 5 years ago myself. But now, I'd say if there's one thing AC can learn from CS:GO, then it's this. You got to provide a dedicated mode/infrastructure for all these groups.

Finally, the prevalence of weird maps being played is not the cause for players to stay away, but actually only the symptom of a lack of players willing to play the real thing. So, the question is, how to get in players that enjoy the regular game more than their daily goof.

[D3M0NW0LF]

Dear, god Mr.Floppy. I love you.

[Masterhit]

...If you read mapediting6 at your ac docs you will see this rule:
1-No dark corners/places for campers.
2-This is subject to discussion. You should provide some sniper spots, but players must have a chance to fight back by means of tactics. Don't build "sniper forts"...

Keep in mind, Those are guidelines, Not enforced rules.
And there are no clear definitions of 'crap' in terms of mapping.
Some people like things that I hate, And people are entitled to their opinions (Even though it is a well-known fact that all my opinions are actually facts* :-)

* And anything I write on Wikipedia actually becomes true.

[gtrx]

My solution: have servers that have "bad" maps (like twintowers, camper but NOT simple edits of them) and servers that only allow official/"good" maps (like ac_village etc.)

[1Cap]

On the first night they approachand steal a flower
from our garden.
And we say nothing.
On the second night, they no longer hide:
step on the flowers,
they kill our dog,
and we say nothing.
Until one day,
the most fragile of them
enters alone in our house,
steal the light and,
knowing our fear,
they rip out the sound out of our throats.
And because we never said anything
we will be really toneless.
....
Thx all for still fight!
....
It is incredible how this game is still alive even with so much blood spilled.

Understand that the question is not to restrict maps ... the question is to show power and reduce the freedom of creation. There will be no evolution here ... just pseudo hight level programmers doing homework ... well, this I've been seeing for years ...