Hosta's blacklisting
#1
(13 Jun 13, 10:52PM)jamz Wrote: Because his attitude to being caught out has been so helpul, I'm only CBL'ing him for 2 months instead of the usual 3.

I'm not a huge fan of your logic (though I doubt I can change your mind), so I'll ask one thing - that PM was sent only after he was caught cheating, correct? ("Vanquish told me Medusa/you saw me with a cheat client")
Then how do you know he would have confessed to cheating if he had not been caught?
His basic attitude in that PM is "yes I used cheat and I'm sorry" - isn't this what one should normally do (as opposed to idiots like LeXuS who deny it until the very end?)? Yes he's a nice guy who's well known, and I do like him and rC, but I don't see the need for special treatment (though I feel that I might be missing something, which I feel I am since I know you generally make the best decision in these matters).
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#2
3 months
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#3
I'm not going to debate my methodology, and you're entitled to your opinions. What you're possibly missing, ShadowFlameZed, is that a CBL for a match player is completely meaningless (other than symbolic) and if he chooses to keep playing, he can. In less then three months' time he will be back in another clan, or possibly the same one, with a hearty slap on the back from his clanmates, and trebles all round. Hell, the fact that he only cheated in pubs is a requirement in some clans.
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#4
Why would you create a thread about it just to start the flame? Sorry but it's very stupid and low from you to make a big deal out of it in order to make people comment & flame about it...

I think he should be blacklisted 3 months like everyone who cheated, even tho his case is a bit different since he admitted when there was no proofs against it..
I trust jamz to make the right decision whether its 2 or 3 months CBL.

PS: Hosta u stupid potatoe :3 <3
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#5
(14 Jun 13, 07:28AM)DamDam Wrote: Why would you create a thread about it just to start the flame?
To be fair, DamDam, he didn't. I split his posted reply from the "_obvious_ cheats" thread.
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#6
filthy
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#7
IMO the entire clan knew about it,
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#8
Here we go again.

I don't think anyone can understand Jamz so just let him do what he think is the best. And I honestly don't think that Hosta will do it again.
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#9
(14 Jun 13, 08:01AM)Fearles=MyS= Wrote: IMO the entire clan knew about it,

Ehh wtf are you saying. Nice try to flame, didnt you cheat too?
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#10
(14 Jun 13, 07:33AM)jamz Wrote:
(14 Jun 13, 07:28AM)DamDam Wrote: Why would you create a thread about it just to start the flame?
To be fair, DamDam, he didn't. I split his posted reply from the "_obvious_ cheats" thread.

Alright, my bad then. But seeing how the "Xemi's blacklisting" thread turned out, idk if it's the best idea to start a "lets-bash-rC" thread again ^^

And Fearles, none of us knew about it since he downloaded the multihack cheat client some days ago and used it for fun on public servers, nothing we knew about.
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#11
OH GOD THAT'S HILARIOUS
HE WAS LINKING ME CHEATS A FEW DAYS AGO TO ASK ME WHICH ONES WORKED LOL
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#12
"and used it for fun" Cheating. Its so much fun. Go cheat offline and stuff I dont care. But dont fucking come online and waste my time with flying in the air, speeding like crazy, or shooting everyones head of without having any skill. Respectless. Cheating online is not fun.
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#13
Well [email protected] is still a nice guy, but I still wonder why he did that, was he going to use it in matches? Why did he want to try it and especially in pubs, because an aimbot would work on bots too... He didn't loose 2 months of pubs, he wasted the trust of the community. No more joker.

[badjoke]rC strikes again[/badjoke]
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#14
Am I really reading it? A cheater CBL'd for a limited amount of time? :o
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#15
hardly even a ban 2 months i served longer bans for "trolling" this forum
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#16
im just at a loss for why he would anyway. risking his rep for a funny game

there have been allegations of rC cheating (strong or not), so why would an rc member cheat then? do you really like the flames?
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#17
i paid him man, trust
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#18
(14 Jun 13, 07:33AM)jamz Wrote:
(14 Jun 13, 07:28AM)DamDam Wrote: Why would you create a thread about it just to start the flame?
To be fair, DamDam, he didn't. I split his posted reply from the "_obvious_ cheats" thread.
This.

(14 Jun 13, 08:37AM)DamDam Wrote: Alright, my bad then. But seeing how the "Xemi's blacklisting" thread turned out, idk if it's the best idea to start a "lets-bash-rC" thread again ^^
See, it's not about bashing rC, it's just that there are individuals whom some people in this community question, and the fact that many of these individuals are in the same clan bring up some suspicion about the clan.
Honestly, it doesn't help your "reputation" that now almost half your active members are ex-cheaters (Jorik, Mystered, Xemi, Hosta - 4/9).
Again, I like you guys, you're nice people and whatnot, but Cemer does have a point, a lot of this seems to be brought upon yourselves. This is not an attack, just an observation by many.
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#19
Mystered cheated?
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#20
(14 Jun 13, 04:03PM)ShieldyBear Wrote: Mystered cheated?
Yes, in 1.0.
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#21
(14 Jun 13, 03:10PM)ShadowFlameZ Wrote: This is not an attack, just an observation by many.

It's one that shouldn't be ignored either. 4/9 members? Get your game up, rC.
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#22
Does the fact that they cheated in the past make them humanly different?
Besides the fact they made a mistake and will learn from it, I don't see how they play the game differently than all of us do.
You can't constantly judge someone from what he has done in the past, because in that case, maybe we should consider a kid who has stolen a bike when he was 14 years old should never be reinserted in society again and considered as a thief his whole life ?

You said it right, they are ex-cheaters, meaning that as most of the people who play the game, they do not cheat anymore.
If anything, the probability that those ex-cheaters cheat again is probably lower than for those who never cheated.
In fact, you more often see non-cheating players try cheats (Swarmed, C3dric, Hosta...), rather than ex-cheaters cheat again. (exception for some guys like JV, S0NIC, Priest who will keep on cheating no matter what).

I don't really see why we should reject people who cheated from the community after they served their sanction.
Which is probably why there are "many" ex-cheaters in .rC|. We indeed stand for tolerance, and we don't judge someone simply on his past but on his personality and who he is as a person, aswell as if he'd fit in the group and what he can bring us. (not only skillwise)

Also, I don't really understand people who say "cheaters are all the same", this is IMO not true. People don't use same cheats and they don't use it in the same intentions or circumstances.
There are differences between players who use cheats on private servers to "have fun & test it with friends" and those who use it in order to get an advantage in competitive matches.

I'm not saying the sanction should be different, and I even think 3 months is not enough (5 months?), but the reinsertion should be different between players like Xemi or S0NIC; yet people don't seem to make a huge difference between those 2 and call them both "cheaters".

In real life it's the same, you wouldn't give the same sentence to someone who killed his wife by voluntarily poisoning her or someone who killed his wife by "accident" (eg: an argument that turned out badly in which he did not wish her death).
Justice does make a difference depending on the intentions of both of them, even if they can be both considered as murderers.

tl:dr Hosta deserves at least 3 months (which is the standard period) of blacklist as he needs to "pay for what he's done", however, I don't see how it changes the person he is and I will personally treat him no different and he will remain my friend anyway.

Cheers :)
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#23
Why the special treatment?. He should serve the 3 months ban as a regular cheater, he did nothing special to be treated as a separate case, he is just basically saying "You caught me cheating. I confess. I'm sorry bla bla bla", he fall into the same cheater sack, no difference.
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#24
(14 Jun 13, 08:01AM)Fearles=MyS= Wrote: IMO the entire clan knew about it,

Honestly, that's retarded. He downloaded the cheats on Wednesday (before any clans start crying about any matches that were played unfairly), when he had a day off and the rest of us were at college/school/work/whatever, and tested them on pubs under alias, I didn't even speak to him that day. We had no idea until jamz PM'd me about it last night, I don't even understand why you'd make such an idiotic assumption.


(14 Jun 13, 08:51AM)Xenon Wrote: OH GOD THAT'S HILARIOUS
HE WAS LINKING ME CHEATS A FEW DAYS AGO TO ASK ME WHICH ONES WORKED LOL

I don't know if you're being serious or not, but if you are, then why didn't you say anything to us?


(14 Jun 13, 08:52AM)YesWeCamp Wrote: "and used it for fun" Cheating. Its so much fun. Go cheat offline and stuff I dont care. But dont fucking come online and waste my time with flying in the air, speeding like crazy, or shooting everyones head of without having any skill. Respectless. Cheating online is not fun.

Honestly this is probably the best post in the thread. I don't do it, but cheating in SP harms nobody and you're more likely to get away with it. The fact he cheated in public and moreso on a fucking ladder is completely retarded to me.




(14 Jun 13, 12:08PM)Cemer Wrote: im just at a loss for why he would anyway. risking his rep for a funny game

there have been allegations of rC cheating (strong or not), so why would an rc member cheat then? do you really like the flames?

well I agree fully with the first part of your post, but it isn't exactly like we have access to cheat clients and just tell our members to keep quiet about them. ofc we don't like flames, but I don't see why you're generalizing something HE did with something the clan did. We literally had no idea until jamz PM'd us about it - thankfully he was very efficient at solving the problem.


(14 Jun 13, 03:10PM)ShadowFlameZ Wrote: Cemer does have a point, a lot of this seems to be brought upon yourselves.

No he doesn't, we didn't ask for this or bring any of it upon ourselves.


(14 Jun 13, 04:10PM)DamDam Wrote: I will personally treat him no different and he will remain my friend anyway.

as Exoduss said, I still think Hosta's a nice person, but what he did was retarded and he should pay for it, no special treatment because he was our teammate or whatever.
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#25
(14 Jun 13, 04:10PM)DamDam Wrote: Does the fact that they cheated in the past make them humanly different?

Because it's a philosophic question, I will make a philosophic answer, since he is in the society, he must respect society's rules, if he doesn't, he also doesn't fit with the society and must change/leave.
What he did is not only a lack of respect for everyone who trusted him, it's a lack of respect for everyone he killed while he was cheating, did he have in mind there were real persons under animated characters he was destroying 3 by 3?

(14 Jun 13, 04:10PM)DamDam Wrote: ...in fact, you more often see non-cheating players try cheats...

If I was an ex-cheater, I would be proud to show to everyone I'm playing an ultra clean AssaultCube without anything that could be suspicious and nothing that could expect accusation situations, wich rC doesn't do, they are constantly trying to get all the advantages, and nobody can say a word about it of it will be described as a "rC harassment". (edit: if you find once again a "rC generality" here, don't make an entire thread called "rC honesty" where you are showing to everyone what your clan is using)



Yes of course we can not judge a player only from his past, but we can not ignore what he did in the past, your 14 years old bike stealer is a bad exemple, Hosta (and others) is not a young boy and he was completely aware of what he was doing. (and honeslty, a 14 years old stealer has some problems)

A cheater is ... a cheater because ... he cheated, isn't that enough clear?
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#26
so is rC going to kick him?
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#27
(14 Jun 13, 04:10PM)DamDam Wrote: If anything, the probability that those ex-cheaters cheat again is probably lower than for those who never cheated.

Yes, this is exactly why the police pays more attention to individuals with clean criminal records instead of keeping a close eye on who has committed a felony in the past......

Or is it the other way around? ;-)
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#28
(14 Jun 13, 04:07PM)Aekom Wrote:
(14 Jun 13, 03:10PM)ShadowFlameZ Wrote: This is not an attack, just an observation by many.

It's one that shouldn't be ignored either. 4/9 members? Get your game up, rC.
Just found out that if you include the 3 inactive members it's 5/12...

(14 Jun 13, 04:48PM)Xenon Wrote: so is rC going to kick him?
lol.

DamDam Wrote:long post

I'm not talking about the morality of cheating or not; you cheat, serve your time under the BL, then fine welcome back. I'm talking about what you're saying that people are constantly bashing rC, and perhaps there is some modicum of reason to said "bashing."
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#29
Bad move Hosta :'(

I think rC should be left out of it though. They clearly have fair players, we just saw 6 of them lose to a low chance contender in the Summer Cup.
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#30
yes i did cheat in 1.0, shield.


The thing is the ex-cheaters of the clan cheated a 'long' time ago, and hosta cheated a few days ago, that i why i don't see him as an ex-cheater but more like a cheater, and that is why he should be kicked imo. its not my decision however.
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