About admins and stuff...

[paulmuaddibKA]

Hi girls, in my ever growing intention of making this game better, I just posted this in BoB forum, but I also want other people to read it and give some insights. With the help of us all, we can make a "Guide to being a good player/admin!" So, what do you have to say..?

Hi! I find the admin list is out of date. I would also like to add my two cents and address something important, which is the lack of nice team shifting admins...
A notable issue with this game, at least in its actual release, is the /autoteam 1 feature. It normally takes into account the flags (I believe) and can ruin the game for , from the biggest n00b to the most accustomed player.
Its my intent to ask the players who do have admin in your ladder servers if they know how to team shift and how it is important, as much as kicking or banning players, or even voting maps. Its also important that the players be aware of their responsibilities, and that I try to do to.
Before I start I want to give one good example, which would be the new sJ ladder server where there is (I think) always an admin around, and not under disguise. They dont do team shifting, but its a good start...
So, why is team shifting important? Because , another "wrong" feature in this game is how players who disconnect have no penalty for doing so.
I could connect and disconnect from a server seven times throughout a game and it wouldnt be a problem (for me), but it is a problem for the rest of the team. Then, as we are playing on a ladder server, and team whoring happens here more than in other servers, an admin should try to do his/her best to shift the teams so the game can continue being equally fun!
I, myself, am guilty of leaving games in the middle of the fray, but, and this is very important as well, there are players who jump into the battle without considering how they can unbalance the game, and thats the first point in this list, which goes to players and admins.

1 : Please, before your first spawn, see how each team is doing and , if necessary, wait until a player disconnects to spawn.
-What should and admin do? With the provided tools we have, a admin script with different possibilities should be fitted to help you do the job of kicking a player thats distresses the game in this matter.
IE: /kick 1 "Ruining team balance"
Do most people care, no they dont , but they SHOULD and with the new force spectate it will be easier for "us" to improve the game.

2 : Please, respect the game and try not to disconnect before a match finishes.
-What should and admin do? If a player connects and disconnects various times from a game, just warn him that he might get banned. I know this interferes with my statement, but sometimes its better to lose 1 player than losing a whole team due to unbalance.

3 : Please, try not to take advantage of how good your team is doing, and, if necessary, change teams.
I find disturbing how so many players, also well known ones, refuse to change teams even when scores like: "200 frags/14 flags vs 90 frags/3 flags" occur. Self-explanatory.
-What should an admin do? Taking into account the players in each team and how the game is growing, make clever decisions to balance the teams. As admin are players who have experience in this game it shouldnt be that difficult.

4 : Please, try not to play under alias.
This, is difficult even for me. Thats why I suggest that an IP name base is done, so when a player claims admin, he sees the most used name for that IP address, along the actual name of the player. Is taht possible? I dont know, but I wish XD
-What should an admin do? NEVER PLAY UNDER ALIAS! Its confusing and can lead to fights and weird situations.

Well, Im a bit tired, please feel free to add your own ideas/comments/insights so this can become a "Guide to being a good player/admin!.

[|FOX|Exia]

TL;DR, BUT I did manage to skim a bit and I see how you feel about this. Even as this is a problem, admins are entitled to their rules and etiquette. Your concerns are indeed very true and in all honesty should be put in. But one must take in account the "going about" of even notifying the admins of being a good admin.

Personally I feel that if one does not truly feel comfortable in a server, said citizen should leave.

Your statements are true to a point, and I believe everyone can relate to your frustration.

[RCJD]

Good stuff paul.

It sounds like common sense (and it is!), but in reality, it's not practiced by all admins in pubs.

How can we make it happen?

[Oracle]

4 : Please, try not to play under alias.
This, is difficult even for me. Thats why I suggest that an IP name base is done, so when a player claims admin, he sees the most used name for that IP address, along the actual name of the player. Is taht possible? I dont know, but I wish XD

There is something that is possible along these premises. It's something called a Friend script. I used to have a copy of it back in 1.0, but I seem to have misplaced it. Nik from [aCKa] VallDiGna made it, and this is what it did: when a person (whose IP you've logged on your "friendlist") joins a server, the name you've logged with that IP will pop up, basically telling you who is under that disguise. I'll try to find it if possible, but if somebody else can conjure it up that would be great :).

[DES|Anderson]

Sorry Paul but personally i believe you are way off the mark! Nothing makes me more anoyed than seeing multiple attempts to balance teams to a perfect balance durring a game. Its just not possible all you do is anoy people by shifting them around all the time. Having said that Ladder whoring does hapen as does team fixing, in these cases the admin should always move him/herself first to try to regain balance. If this does not work a request for someone to move normally does the trick, if it does not and only then the admin can force a player. If as has happened a few times to me the forced player then quites and rejoins in an attempt to resume whoring then a kick is in order followed by a temp ban and then BL if the player persists. Most if not all Ladders state that team fixing will not be tolerated, but admins shuffling teams to what they percieve as balanced is also a kind of team fixing!

You cannot always be on the winning team! learn to live with that and yur life will be more complete. The better players in this game can stop ladder whoring, they dont need ladder points they play for fun and often they want decent competition thats how they got to be good, they should try and join the weaker side when they enter the server that works well.

One final thought, most of the ladder whoring/team fixing i see involves an admin, more policing of the admins by the players is required, make reports to the ladder owners, they will sort it out no one wants team fixing in this game!

Also players who join a server see that they are lossing and leave are tossers, you may get good ratio's that way and it may make u look a big man in your clan but the truth is your skills suck and ur image is built on only playing against weak teams, you know who you are in the community (I wont name names here) but stop that and gameplay will also improve.

[Vanquish]

Players who join a server see that they are lossing and leave are tossers, you may get good ratio's that way and it may make u look a big man in your clan but the truth is your skills suck and ur image is built on only playing against weak teams, you know who you are in the community (I wont name names here) but stop that and gameplay will also improve.

I remember when I used to do this :D:D

This is good advice I'd say, except that nobody really improves if they only play public servers - the fastest way to improve is to play cm's/inters with people better than you. Not to say its impossible to improve by playing pubs, but its just not the optimum way.

[Xenon]

TL;DR

[VallDiGna]

... Nik from [aCKa] made it, and this is what it did: when a person (whose IP you've logged on your "friendlist") joins a server, the name you've logged with that IP will pop up...

That was my script! :D But only works when you make a whois. I modified it to catch every joining player, but i did not post it.

[Waffles]

The more you define case by case rules, the harder it becomes to enforce them. We try and make sure our admins are of high quality but often people can get pissed off for seemingly no reason. Use common sense. I find when I play on pubs that I'm stuck with massive idiots on my team that think it's cool to shoot me and not the enemy at all (thus why I dont play pubs often). Auto-team usually does do it's job eventually, and maybe if teams are that unbalanced it is due to people leaving or bad admins (as you said). The only real way to get a fair game going in this game where both sides can be of the same general quality is clan matches against clans of similar level. Otherwise, you'll either be crushing, or getting crushed (as some cms go as well). Basically, no admin I've seen (with a few exceptions) intentionally disturbs the game for the express purpose of having a leg up in competition. If they are doing this, feel free to report them to us, or other ladder owners and I'm sure they'll be dealt with.

As far as aliasing goes, I play often aliased because I grow tired of constant "Waffles x1? x2? x3?" I don't personally see a problem with this because if I claim admin to kick someone, people will know it's one of the people on the admin list (which is still pretty up to date iirc).

As far as admin numbers, I agree there should be more. However, few to none have approached me personally and asked for admin pass, and even fewer do I trust with those responsibilities (although the rest of BoB are more trusting by nature).

Ultimately it comes down to, if you've got a severe problem, just don't play on those servers. If you do enjoy the servers and want to play on them, accept that it will never be perfect and possibly could never be as there are too many variables at work and too many opinions to balance about what a good team/admin is.

[Nightmare]

I don't like teams swapping places mid-game. Actually I hate it. Whether it's 6-5, or 15-2. You play to win, not to have bad dev'ing autoteam or admin earthquake the game and ruin your hardwork. Losing teams on pubs learn more than the winning teams, usually.

The rest of the points are fine though. :) I usually never alias, usually finish the game out, etc.
In general, on B} & {BoB} servers, I usually don't use admin but I follow their rules. :)
If on a random pub and someone hands me admin during the game, I'm a dictator and turn off autoteam, and shuffle teams at the start of each game. Because autoteam is evil, and the same exact teams aren't fun for another 15 minute game. :3

[VenteX]

Just stick with these three simple rules:

1. Don't do anything to make the normal, innocent players angry.
   
2. Do everything to make the evil, malicious players (i.e. obvious cheaters, intentional TK'ers, general asshats) angry.
   
3. There is no Rule #3. Just don't let the first two Rules conflict with each other.
   

[Billybob]

I don't believe its an admins job to balance teams, that's the games job. Anyway, I usually find the person screaming for a shuffle is on the losing side and hopes the shuffle will put them onto the winning side, one team has to lose otherwise what is the point.

I'm a dictator and turn off autoteam, and shuffle teams at the start of each game. Because autoteam is evil, and the same exact teams aren't fun for another 15 minute game. :3

Maybe it would be a good idea to implement this in AC and remove the shuffle and autoteam options.

[tempest]

one team has to lose otherwise what is the point.

Phew, that's a hard one. Wait, how about... having fun? Srsly.
Really, turn off autoteam and leave your fingers off forceteam except where it's really necessary. And stop whining about unfair teams. Of course there are extreme cases, but generally TKers, whiners, cheaters etc. are so much more annoying than unbalanced teams. The former is what admins should actually take care of.

[Nightmare]

I'm a dictator and turn off autoteam, and shuffle teams at the start of each game. Because autoteam is evil, and the same exact teams aren't fun for another 15 minute game. :3

Maybe it would be a good idea to implement this in AC and remove the shuffle and autoteam options.

F1 <3
Ban devs from game until it's done. :3

[titiPT]

The former is what admins should actually take care of.

Being in a team with with TKers can be as frustrating as being in a team loosing 100-20 in frags. Admins should take care of the malicious players AND balance the teams (not by shuffling, but by forcing key players), thus making the games enjoyable.

[ElCrema]

Best way to balance a game is: /changeteam. Just move your arse to the loosing team once a spot opens, it is also very effective to hunt down and annoy ratio whores. There is no need of admins for that to happen, ppl just need to start to care more about playing good pub games other than get easy ladder points.

[paulmuaddibKA]

Reason behind this post anyone?
I see the general believe is that I wanna complain about being in the loser team, or that I dont like the servers, or something alike.
What I dont like is the players, and the players attitudes, for example Xenon and his TL:DR (Come to the bash threads for funz) does somehow relate with what I see in the servers. Players who dont give a fuck.

I have benched myself countless times in "n vs n-1" games (lol math reference for you clever guys XD).
I have found myself many many many many times waiting for a player to come to a "n vs n" match taking place so I could spawn and play a "n+1 vs n+1".
And what have happened a bizillion times after this? That another player comes and spwans without taking this into account. And that drives me nuts.
I have a bit experience in AC and there is nothing that I can ask out of other players in this game that becomes a reality (maybe except for a few of you guys XD, Im addressing the "mass").
So, in my attempt to try to find a solution, I though maybe if I relate to players who have admin, we together can come to conclusion that can help us improve this lack of attitude, and if it need to be done through authority , then why not?
So, please, take it as it is. A list of things that can help ladder players to be better to the other players, and not a lame excuse for forcing teams or such things.
Please keep your ideas coming, and maybe we together can make a better experience for ALL OF US.
Thanks!

[RCJD]

I also find autoteam a great pain (this thread is getting off topic?).

Making a dumb assumption that some players actually play a pub game to win (many just use pubs for fooling around, or ladder whoring. Including myself!)... these players will have the common cause to work for their team's victory. If they can do it, great; it's rewarding seeing your gameplay pay off. If not, that's fine too; it's immature to expect to win every game - and losses can be learning opportunities.

But autoteam is a steamroller that makes the game FLAT and less exciting. Autoteam kills any development of teamwork that may have existed - it encourages the mentality that "every player is for him/herself"... because you can't be a passionate team player when you're switching sides mid-game.

It also can be unfair: People who deserve to win don't win. People who deserve to lose don't lose.

Despite this, one team totally owning the other is not fun either. Especially if the team losing has some players who actually want to win, but are stuck with idiots.

Not sure if someone suggested this, but maybe reprogram autoteam so that it doesn't take effect until there's a huge unbalance?

[Bukz]

Autoteam can be changed, people that refuse to switch to the losing team to regain balance won't change, and to be honest that is usually the problem.

[Nightmare]

@RCJD I posted on the ideas thread a few days ago saying autoteam should only happen with a 3+ player gap. Or kill off autoteam completely. & auto shuffle at the start of new games.
Fixes the annoying game killing of autoteam, and forces haxors to play with the other team.

Hopefully some admins and players will read and agree with paul's post and make things nicer on pubs. :)

[MorganKell]

Auto team is the biggest bullshit known to man. Fks up a perfectly good game because all f a sudden the score is unbalanced?! Fk that. If I have an epic style awesomeness going on RVSF on one map or CLA on another I'm not going to switch just because a bunch of girls want their egos stroked. "Ooohhhh my screenies look bad cuz I ain't got points cuz we were overmatched! Ooohhhhh..." Solution? Get better bitches.

[Nightmare]

Auto team is the biggest bullshit known to man. Fks up a perfectly good game because all f a sudden the score is unbalanced?! Fk that. If I have an epic style awesomeness going on RVSF on one map or CLA on another I'm not going to switch just because a bunch of girls want their egos stroked. "Ooohhhh my screenies look bad cuz I ain't got points cuz we were overmatched! Ooohhhhh..." Solution? Get better bitches.

Spoiler