Bob and TyD ladder servers.

[tipper|DES|]

While its great that people bother to sort out a ladder and fancy stats, nice looking pages, etc, there really isn’t a lot of point if the bit that matters, being able to play a game without lag and without getting disconnected, isn’t working.
The Bob and TyD servers are truly horrendous. I don’t mean a bit laggy; I mean you cant play a complete game without either lagging to the point that players just stand there as ghosts, or getting completely disconnected.
Strangely, the BCFH Arena server seems fine.

So, server owners, how about just coping with the basic stuff and getting the servers to work properly; once that’s sorted then maybe make all the pretty pages and constant updating.

These servers are not fit to play on and shouldn’t imo be allowed to connect to the Master Server while they are in such an appalling state. They really are that bad.

Also, a sign that nobody who either cares or knows what they are doing is checking the Bob servers is the main page still thinks we are in April. :)

[Vanquish]

I found this lag problem very prominently on the {BoB}Marley, Dylan and Euro[FR] ladders but it seems they've been taken down, probably for this reason. TyD's servers lag occassionally and less often for me, and some {BoB} ladder servers such as the B}Free USA don't lag at all (for me, anyway).

[RAMPAGE]

Also, a sign that nobody who either cares or knows what they are doing is checking the Bob servers is the main page still thinks we are in April. :)

You are probably talking about the April prank. You should clear the cache from your web browser or use http://ladder.thebillybobs-rocking-on.net/home/ to get on that website.

Other part of the topic is truly shameful, especially coming from well known member of community and it shows a great deal of ignorance. To tell you the truth, I was astonished that you're asking to remove BoB and TyD ladder servers from master server because you cannot play game without lag and blame that on "pretty ladder pages that constantly update"! What about other servers that are not on ladder, why can't you enjoy those without complaining over ladder ones? Before posting similar things, please have in mind that many people have spent their time, energy, knowledge and money to built and maintain the ladder systems. I think it's clear what I had to say, although it was hard to restrain myself from using juicy vocabulary.

While its great that people bother to sort out a ladder and fancy stats, nice looking pages, etc,

Only part of the quote i agree with. Both TyD and BoB ladders have nice looking pages and fancy stats and lot of good people working on them. :)

[#M|A#Wolf]

You're sure it's not an own problem from your provider, tipper? I've played some pubs this week and I haven't experienced any 'severe' lag that made my d/c.

[Aekom]

Yeah I'd do a quick ping test tipper. Personally, I don't have any lag issues when I play on the ladder servers.

[paulmuaddibKA]

The only real problem I see and that I want to address is the lack of nice admins who know how to short teams, and that is something that takes away form the game.

[Edward]

Imo Tipper's post was not aggressive. The main point is lets fix that and lets play correctly again.

[ElCrema]

It is true that some fierce lag is present at times but, mostly caus players from all over the globe fancy some ladder whoring and every now and them some servers get filled with high ping/pj dudes that make gameplay rather annoying There is not a whole lot servers owners can do about this (other than region IP block that BoB tried, which is a horrible idea imo).

Some servers do have terrible lag spikes out of nowhere that disconnects everybody (tipper is right here, I experienced it several times and my internets is top notch, therefore my connection is not the one to blame). I will assume this has to do over used vps capabilities or cheapo connections, maybe?

[RAMPAGE]

Imo Tipper's post was not aggressive. The main point is lets fix that and lets play correctly again.

And how do you propose to do that exactly? We actually don't know what is making servers lag (could be all sorts of things and we are looking into it) and I don't think it's unplayable as some might suggest. Aggressive isn't the same as offensive. Saying these servers lag is ok, but suggesting that they should be removed or not allowed on Master Server list is way off.

[Ronald_Reagan]

The only issue I have seen/heard with B}Free is this: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-5153.html

And it wasn't just happening on this host. So, if you know what the issue is, feel free to tell us how to fix it.

[Billybob]

These are the specs for Billybobs server :-

[SELECT ALL] Code:

Operating system     Debian Linux 6.0
Kernel and CPU             Linux 2.6.32-238.12.1.el5.028stab091.1 on x86_64
Processor information     Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3470 @ 2.93GHz, 2 cores
System uptime             4 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes
CPU load averages     0.48 (1 min) 0.23 (5 mins) 0.08 (15 mins)
CPU usage                     1% user, 1% kernel, 0% IO, 98% idle
Real memory             1024 MB total, 185.28 MB used

This lag/kick issue only seems to have reared its head since the updates to ver. 1.1.0.x. I don't recall any real problems with ver. 1.0.x

If someone can suggest a fix I will gladly apply it to my server.

[tipper|DES|]

While I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge I know virtually nothing about the running of ac servers Rampage, I haven't yet become so senile that I can't tell if I've been disconnected from a server, or that a server is lagging, for whatever reason.

I also cant help noticing that the other servers that I have played on don't lag to the point of disconnection; (BCHF for example, mentioned in the OP) among others and many hardly lag at all, even with a number of higher than average ping players connected. This rather rules out a problem with my ISP and maybe even other lagging players.

Further, I know Bob are aware of the problem; a couple of Bob members have mentioned the problem with lag to me "in game" as have quite a few players. If my memory serves me there was at some point a banner on the Bob ladder page that mentioned Bob were aware of the problem.

While pointing out my ignorance of server running and computer matters in general (which I'm quite happy to acknowledge) and stating your seeming indigence and disappointment that a "well known community member" should even consider complaining about the state of servers may seem may seem initially a sound point scoring stratagem designed to tell off the ignorant without resorting to "juicy" language, the simple fact remains, YER FECKIN SERVERS LAG LIKE FECK!

Now if I was about the business of feigning indifference about the state of the ladder servers your implication that I should shut up and go play elsewhere might well encourage a small tantrum were I said I couldn't give a toss about yer feckin crap servers and that might be the end of it.
However, for all my faults I'm honest about my interest in this game and its infrastructure and while it may not be apparent to you, if I am well known for anything, it's being an incurable ladder whore ( I believe the saying goes) and want to not only play on your servers without these constant disconnections, but also on any other servers that have that irresistible glowing addition to their description that says "ladder'.
I know it's sad and a pouting sulk with added insults is far cooler; but hey, what can i tell you.

So, pretty please with cookies, sort the servers out or take them down until the problems are resolved.

[Waffles]

We understand your point tipper and it is well said and we'll take it under advisement. The nature of criticism often can be misconstrued as offensive. Like you, we are interested in trying to progress this game in a positive way and therefore can be very touchy when it comes to matters concerning our time/money spent on a project. I don't think it's too much to ask for proper respect in conversation regarding this matter (even if you don't respect us). If you wish to see change for the good, at least for me, it is best to come at a slightly more gradual angle.

We are well aware of certain issues regarding servers and have been taking gradual steps to improving these things. A problem that exists comes back to time, money, and reliability of certain people not associated with the game in any way. Take it from me, although we are defensive of our current accomplishments, we will never stop trying to facilitate a better gaming experience in any way we can.

[RAMPAGE]

...

I give up. No need wasting my energy on discussions whit u.

[Mael]

I look forward to seeing if the same people that want to remove low-quality maps will advocate removing low-quality servers.

I'll propose the same solution I've been saying for the map issue: temporarily filter servers from the list if they not meet standards. When the standards are met, they are added again. They may not even need to be removed, perhaps just greyed, obfuscated(Can't see the map in play), or slightly more difficult to connect to(Must type /connect ip port).

The issue is a little fuzzier this time. What is a poor connection, where are the thresholds, etc.

[Ronald_Reagan]

and how do you measure those from just one location (MS).

[Mael]

It may be that the masterserver doesn't need to measure it. Server source is closed isn't it? The server knows the quality of players' connections and will alter it's status accordingly. It's one more variable set by the server and interpreted by the masterserver.

[Ronald_Reagan]

The ACAC is closed source, yes, however you can compile without it and run a server on the MS without a change. Just see the kiwi server, exodus and other servers.

[Aekom]

I'll propose the same solution I've been saying for the map issue: temporarily filter servers from the list if they not meet standards. When the standards are met, they are added again. They may not even need to be removed, perhaps just greyed, obfuscated(Can't see the map in play), or slightly more difficult to connect to(Must type /connect ip port).

The quality of a map is subjective though, so who decides on what the standards should be?

[pwnage{TyD}]

These are the specs for Billybobs server :-

[SELECT ALL] Code:

Operating system     Debian Linux 6.0
Kernel and CPU             Linux 2.6.32-238.12.1.el5.028stab091.1 on x86_64
Processor information     Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3470 @ 2.93GHz, 2 cores
System uptime             4 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes
CPU load averages     0.48 (1 min) 0.23 (5 mins) 0.08 (15 mins)
CPU usage                     1% user, 1% kernel, 0% IO, 98% idle
Real memory             1024 MB total, 185.28 MB used

This lag/kick issue only seems to have reared its head since the updates to ver. 1.1.0.x. I don't recall any real problems with ver. 1.0.x

If someone can suggest a fix I will gladly apply it to my server.

It's for certain that it happened after the 1.1.0.x update. I have a bit more resources on the machine I'm using and it's connected to a 100Mbit port. The server also runs with two disk setup in a RAID. It's not the server, or the service. It's an AC bug.

I agree that it is annoying to get kicked when you're in the middle of the game. For those who are interested (devs) in different ideas on what's causing the fault can have a look here ---> http://forum.cubers.net/thread-5153-page-1.html

[PERROS]

[pwnage{TyD}]

PERROS.

Please keep this thread for what it was for.

[RAMPAGE]

With all due respect pwnage (and i really mean it) what was this thread for? Singling out ladder servers as the leggiest ones. The issue with lag is known fact but it shouldn't be discussed here, because the topic was out of line.

[Oracle]

PERROS.

Didn't he quit?

But yeah, true dat gramps. Hit up the BoB site if you have issues with the ladder servers.

[DES|Anderson]

I wasnt going to say anything here because i believe the whole thread to be nonsense but anyway here it goes...

This goes to all the moaners and complainers out there.

Have you ever stopped to think how much time and effort is put in by the likes of BoB and TyD (and others too numerous to mention) to provide you with fun and competition? Have you ever contributed one penny of the actual money it takes to run servers or websites, these people give up there time and money to provide you all with a free and enjoyable game. Yes there is lag, do you not think that they want to remove lag as much as possible? All who contribute their time and money to make this game free should be at least be reconised for what they do and not jumped on the moment a problem shows itself!

Furthermore in this case it looks like its not the server ops fault but dont think that means you can start bashing the Devs! Likewise they give time and money to make the game what it is, so we have a lag issue in 1.1.0.x yes sometimes you get booted for no reason, if you dont like it play elsewhere or even better help to fix it instead of complaining and throwing random accusations.

Ok rant over, there are like and dislike options if you dont want to play on certain servers, use them! You cannot decide what is a bad server, bad for you may be great for someone else, this game does not revolve around you, show some respect for the time and effort put in here and stop moaning like skool girls...

[Alien]

Anderson, the forums are for complaining, whining and reactions. Hugging, group sex and etc. are a bit gay. Someone complains about lagging and he should receive answer why and when it will be fixed and not learning him he should hug all around for it and at the end he should stfu ?and solve it himself ?. It is not progressive and don't solve the problem.

I can confirm lag issue starts with new version, so i would check new code in that version. Try to comment that code and check differences.

[PERROS]

PERROS.

Please keep this thread for what it was for.

you want to give you the reason, because I will not give you, you think I care what they say about giving lagg servers. I've left a lot of money on servers. Oh and I stopped playing on your servers for 7 months, I do not want to enter these servers only play trolls!

and whenever I can post in this forum, as long as respect to others!. Not a clan that does a post to give admin to people, and what they do is manipulate!

[Edward]

Before those servers were working fine. Why did it change? Lets focus on that. I do not have those kind of problems anywhere else (or on crap servers). I do not really care about that. When I am disconnected (normal) I just go to another server in the list.

TyD and BoB have done a huge work with ladders. And for many of us, when we see BoB or TyD ladder in the list, we think about a high quality server and a decent gameplay. Your work is highly appreciated and we just want your servers to stay the best place to frag :p

You have to accept the criticism because it is not always negative. Yes you made a great job and yes we are very grateful to you for that. We have fun playing assaultcube thanks to people like you but you need us as we need you. What would be the main purpose of an empty server? This is important according to me ! We both play the same game and we can both find solution to our problems.

peace and btw it does not happen to me anymore actually :p

[pwnage{TyD}]

With all due respect pwnage (and i really mean it) what was this thread for? Singling out ladder servers as the leggiest ones. The issue with lag is known fact but it shouldn't be discussed here, because the topic was out of line.

I agree with that. But having people posting pictures to flood the post isn't helping.

The issue with lag and disconnects is a serious problem and should be discussed with those who can fix it.

[DES|Anderson]

Anderson, the forums are for complaining, whining and reactions. Hugging, group sex and etc. are a bit gay. Someone complains about lagging and he should receive answer why...

Actually I thought they were for interlectual exchange and frank discussion as well as a bit of fun. There is a place on the BoB forum to post issues with ladder servers, to be honest the post here just looks like finger pointing and ranting justified or unjustifed i dont know but surely it belongs on the BoB forum first!

Oh and a part of that interlectual discussion would be resolving the issue amounst people who actually are able to understand it as Pwnage said.