Fog colour and distance

[Snoosnoo]

Most mappers have played with fog. Users who fancy a bit of user created modes (such as zombies, tag, hide and seek) have tweaked with it too, to hide players LOS. Fog and fog colour can be altered for maps in the cfg. Comparing fog 64 to fog 1024, the vision is hugely different, and this got me wondering.

If a fog and fog colour is set in the CFG, shouldn't it be permanent? Clearing the fog removes the atmosphere, and to the mappers that have set it, defeats its purpose, which could be to make an area that's quite open, like a larger room or corridor harder to camp in, or whatever. Hell, I don't know. This is mai thoughts. What do YOU think? :O

[Bukz]

There have been talks about not allowing fog to be tweaked if it has been defined in the map .cfg - not sure if that will ever be implemented or not however.

[Snoosnoo]

Well I understand its primary use is to reduce lag. That being said, no fog have an advantage over those that do have fog set to the default in one way or another, wether that's the one who's reduced it is now lagging, or the ones with the fog can't see.

In AC, though, it's asthetic aswell as practical.

[MykeGregory]

i have fog so i cant see it. /fog 1260 i think.
But if everyone had the same amount of fog it would be even and fair.

[Zarjio]

/fog 1024 is what you are thinking of Myke.
I agree with Snoosnoo here, you could really make some amazing map atmosphere using fog correctly, and its a pity that users can always change that - if there could be maps with fog "locked".

[Snoosnoo]

I thought to bring this up since Halo and I were playing a game of tag on a map we're making. We brought a rule up to set the fog to 64, and the fog colour to 0x111111 (Grey.) Just for the fun of it. Of course, you can rely on trust to set a rule like that up. xD

[Orynge]

I support this motion.

Although, what if the fog was set to really low, or nothing?
How would the laggy players deal with that?

[VenteX]

I guess just the same way you'd deal with a map that lags for any other reason.

Isn't ac_power set to have 1024 fog by default?

[ExodusS]

Some mappers will troll the .cfg lol.

BTW, fog 64 bugs, you should up this min value.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

How about users can use the command to any value lower than the value in the .cfg (the defined fog for visuals) so people that lag with that amount can lower it, but users cannot put a value above the defined one in the cfg (to have an advantage over players/ruin any aesthetic effects)

[/thread]

[Snoosnoo]

What. Because that'd defeat the whole purpose of my suggestion of having it fixed for everyone. They'll still have an advantage over others.

[Bukz]

Um, he's saying do not allow users to *increase* the fog variable which would actually reduce the amount of fog. Only allow them to decrease the value from what is set in the .cfg which would actually increase the amount of fog. Confusing I know, but that would stop any advantages one gets from /fog 1024'ing on every map load.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

Bukz, I charge you with this task. Make me proud.

[Snoosnoo]

either way, some users would have an LOS difference to others. In the responsible maps no one would troll the cfg with silly fog colours and values. Equality <3

[MykeGregory]

[SELECT ALL] Code:

/addonloadalways [fog 1024]

= Longer visuals.
^^ Works everytime.

Although, admitingly, this is not fair on noobs/newbs. xD

[Ronald_Reagan]

* Ronald_Reagan likes his fog 1024

But the arguments against me are much better than my own.

[Zarjio]

Don't get me wrong, I always set my fog to 1024 when starting a match, but if it there could be an option to restrict the fog on a map (or not, map maker's choice) that would be awesome.

[Waffles]

i like the idea of making the map true to the artist's intent. However, the way it is now is equal (assuming people know about it) so there isn't a huge discrepancy in my opinion.

[Roflcopter]

i like the idea of making the map true to the artist's intent. However, the way it is now is equal (assuming people know about it) so there isn't a huge discrepancy in my opinion.

And even if fog was fixed, one could gain an advantage through the use of a high-end monitor. For instance the BenQ xl2420t which I hope to get soon actually makes dark black areas on maps hugely more visible. Currently I play on a laptop with quite a low contrast ratio (~200) so I'm probably playing with a slight disadvnatage to most of you but that's the way it goes.

[Mr.Floppy]

Fog isn't a matter of gameplay in general. It's about perfomance in first place and also can be used to create some athmosphere. I don't think any of the default maps' gameplay is heavily impacted by it's fog.

In my opinion it should be the player's choice whether he wants to keep, tweak or disable it completely. I wish I had this choice on other games, where fog does make a difference.

The only disadvantage to people not knowing the neccesary command is on maps providing far distances. If their creaters would just remove fog along the map`s config file, everything would be fine.

[tempest]

And even if fog was fixed, one could gain an advantage through the use of a high-end monitor.

And use of graphics settings such as gamma, color vibrance, contrast and so on.
Compared to the massive effect a higher gamma value has in dark areas, I'd assume the effect of "disabling" fog (as long as the fog originally was at a sensible setting, not 64 or so) is negligible.

[Roflcopter]

I'd assume the effect of "disabling" fog (as long as the fog originally was at a sensible setting, not 64 or so) is negligible.

It makes a huge difference on ac_snow for example.

[tempest]

For the looks, yes, but for gameplay? Well, might be, I never bothered to actually try it - I'm fairly certain fog is not the reason why I'm bad :P

[Ronald_Reagan]

ac_snow's fog does change the gameplay.

[jockskratos]

ac_snow's fog does change the gameplay.

Ac_snow's amazing. It managed to have proper floors and levels (albeit without shadows beneath them as ac isn't using the same engine as sauerbraten).

[Z3R0]

Ac_snow's amazing. It managed to have proper floors and levels (albeit without shadows beneath them as ac isn't using the same engine as sauerbraten).

Im not sure but maybe you are mixing ac_snow with ac_winter, or another map? ac_snow is generally on one level and there are no platforms used. The houses on ac_winter have multiple floors like you suggested.

Ontopic: I think that the mapper should be able to lock a certain level of fog as this is used to enhance the maps atmosphere. I don't like how this atmosphere can be changed by typing /fog 1024, because they think they might play better. On a heavily fogged map some newer players may feel at a disadvantage if they can't see the enemy and don't know how to disable the fog :P

[Snoosnoo]

FU ZERO, YOU'RE IN MY CLAN AND YOU BETRAY ME!

[Waffles]

If you're worried about aesthetics, yes they should be locked. But in terms of gameplay, they should not be. I know that I (as well as many other players) use horrible graphics for a fps boost as well as better visibility. Will graphics be locked too then? I know that fog helps take some strain of the rendering of the visuals, but the customizable nature of ac and the way people prefer to play it should stay how it is.

[Bukz]

That's a bit extreme, of course graphics settings are always going to be up to the end user to decide on, but I don't believe fog should be one of them. Floppy is right, there are not many games out there that leave fog values up to the players to decide on, and I imagine there is a reason for that (potentially unfair - the map makers decide on the amount of fog not the players) - and I think AC should not be one of those games.

Believe it or not there are map makers out there that use fog to enhance the visuals/atmosphere of the map, when competitive players disable fog entirely for better sight, it goes against how the author of the map wanted their map played.

I don't care all that much if it stays or if it goes - but I do think mappers deserve the right to lock fog value/colour so that players cannot tinker with them if they choose to do so.

[jockskratos]

Im not sure but maybe you are mixing ac_snow with ac_winter, or another map? ac_snow is generally on one level and there are no platforms used. The houses on ac_winter have multiple floors like you suggested.

Yes, I meant ac_winter.