[tldr;]Grenade Launcher

[Felix-The-Ghost]

I guess this thread would belong here -- I'm looking for more opinions than I would likely gather posting as a "casual idea" in the ideas thread.

I'm intrigued by the thought of having a grenade launcher as a primary weapon (I am aware there is a mod)

For people automatically going into the "overpowered" mindset, consider the following attributes I would consider weaknesses for such a weapon in the AC engine:

• It would be your primary, meaning no long range projectiles but your pistol
  
• It would use the same hand grenades* that you'd otherwise throw
  
• Incredibly long reload time, possibly long delay between fires
  • You would be overwhelmed by people with faster weapons
    
• Grenade kills count as frags, point wise
  • This means sniper is still long-range king
    
• Grenades have a small area-of-effect in AC
  • With the low rate of fire, you wouldn't be able to attack enemies, if the are spread out, very quickly without switching to your pistol
    
• Possibility for friendly fire limits blind-fire in team modes
  • It would also uniquely be the only primary you could kill yourself with
    
  • Would mean dangerous to use in cramped areas
    
• No reticule
  

Now, why I think it'd be cool:

• It's a unique weapon from other primaries
  
• Shoot grenades that travel fast and far(ther)
  
• Bounce grenades of walls?
  
• Blow up on impact with enemies? (not after bounce)
  

Caveats:

• I'm not sure in our active developers' collective ability to make this possible easily
  • Calculating when to bounce of walls/heightfields (I think optimally it wouldn't if you shot directly at the wall instead of an angle (to shoot into rooms)
    
  • model/animation(s)/sound(s)
    
  • Not sure about toggling behavior or choosing between one of the following:
    • Grenades detonate instantly on surfaces -- would be weird on the skymap :P
      
    • Grenades bounce of surfaces
      
    • Grenades don't detonate until user commands (or other explosions)
      
• No existing map has been designed with this possible weapon in mind
  
• There would be the potential for rage debates regarding stats/behavior (much like the shotgun)
  

Right off, I don't really see this happening, but I think it'd be a fun weapon to use, though I really don't know what behavior would be programmed.

I made this thread for intelligent discussion... please no "tldr:" or "F2" :x

*perhaps unrealistic, but you know, AC

[Lantry]

combat pistol first

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted such a short answer. What I mean by 'combat pistol first' is that the devs already have a new weapon in the werks and they have said that they won't even add that until the get the rest of the weapons balanced.

[#M|A#Wolf]

No offense, it seems like you have thought thoroughly about this, but I have always kept my opinion that grenade launchers are too unrealistic and don't fit in this game ever since it was mentioned. Don't know about others' opinions, but that's what I think anyways.

[Frogulis]

Thanks for putting the thought in, Felix :)
I actually like the idea. The main problems I have are:
1) Whenever I imagine this being used in pubs, the first thing that comes to my mind is a newbie running AC for the first time, picking the Grenade Launcher (because, c'mon, why wouldn't you ;) ) and running out into battle, holding an extremely unwieldy and team-endangering weapon.
They might then proceed to kill three teammates at once, in their inexperienced confusion, and get kicked. They decide that AssaultCube is not worth playing and a potential member of the community is gone. Obviously all weapons can have this problem, but the current set tend to be slightly more forgiving.

2) Games with several grenade launchers per team. This doesn't need a whole lot of explanation.

And of course, such a weapon would have to be severed underpowered. Possible solutions could include your suggestions (long delays), a single shot magazine and possibly a single grenade launcher ammo pickup.

[Ronald_Reagan]

What about a gun that just shoots an explosive round? That would make it look less flashy and noobs might gravitate towards it less.


Personally I think this would be fun as a mod, but not in AC, you summed it up well. "Right off, I don't really see this happening, but I think it'd be a fun weapon to use"

[Nightmare]

I'll always support more weapons in AC, as long as they are balanced. <3
I've heard the argument of "the carbine was new and it ruined all the balance magically despite nobody using it."
so...speed simulation here.

1) re-balance(being done now) 2) throw in combat pistol 3) oh no unbalanced new weapon ohemgee lets redo everything. This process despite three steps is estimated to take...4 years.

1) throw in grenade launcher/combat pistol/wizard who can shoot fireballs/caveman who throws rocks. 2) listen to community so they don't rage and make a 'pro' mod to kill AC....and re-balance ftw.

2 steps > 3 steps & gives AC wizards.

[DES|Anderson]

I like the idea but i would want to see the weopon as a pick up not a primary. You could pick up a nade launcher with a couple of rounds, same attributtes as Felix said it would be awesome and stop the newbie problem as they would have to fight to get it first!

Also it would leave the balance in the hands of the mappers, if it doesnt work dont include it in maps.

[Nightmare]

^would be better than the akimbo <3

[Felix-The-Ghost]

Wow, I can't believe I didn't think of it as a pickup :o

That'd be really neat! Maps would have two pickup weapons (not just akimbo)

grenade launchers are too unrealistic and don't fit in this game ever since it was mentioned

Not sure what you mean by unrealistic... (other than converting the hand-grenades to rounds)


This looks nice, almost AC-ish.

They might then proceed to kill three teammates at once, in their inexperienced confusion, and get kicked.

There are a lot of conditions that would have to be satisfied there for that to happen, and it'd be rather infrequent :P (Even with a larger area-of-effect I think)

Even if they did get kicked in such a worst-cased scenario, I think that'd be cool (Can't tell you how many times since I started playing AC (2+ years ago) I'd headshot a teammate accidentally and sorta grinned [even the victim usually "lol'd"]) -- the auto-kick makes it even better cause you don't know why you disconnected, then you see "kicked for teamkilling" or similar.

What about a gun that just shoots an explosive round?

It wouldn't have that "unique" feel compared to the others I think, in spite of, or perhaps because of the weapon using specialized ammo (whereas other weapons in AC use standard ammo)

Games with several grenade launchers per team. This doesn't need a whole lot of explanation.

I don't think a lot of people would attempt that for strategy more than novelty. They'd all be sharing the same ammo, have the same low area of effect/rate of fire, and still have the friendly fire/suicide risk.

append: Don't know how many of you are familiar with Super Smash Brothers, but that'd be like Snake's final smash -- drop grenade launcher after all rounds are gone or after set time, whichever came first (could be low usage time, pick-up have long spawn delay)

I think I like the idea of it being a pick-up the most (though I don't know if I'd have it replace your primary/secondary/override all weapons until expired)

Akimbo would still be the only pickup reloadable with an existing ammo type capable with long-range and it could have a longer usage time than the grenade launcher.

(I'm already fantasizing a 2 akimbo VS 1 grenade launcher) :P

[MykeGregory]

...Bounce grenades of walls?...

You can already do that. Hell, I do double bounce nading in Shine. right side on CLA spawn.

[SKB]

tl;dr (that's intelligent enough for me)

[Dementium4ever]

Urgh, I first thought, that this would be a 5-page long critisizm about how shitty my mod is xD

Hm, a GL would be fun...but also, it doesn't really fit to AC.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

You can already do that. Hell, I do double bounce nading in Shine. right side on CLA spawn.

I realize that. With the grenades launcher's unique attributes it would be different though (launched at high speed/possibly still blow up on impact with enemy after initial bounce)
And then if it is possible, you could bounce grenades off walls in addition to blowing them up on walls (when the bounce angle is too opposite the fire direction)

but also, it doesn't really fit to AC

That's one thing I'm wondering if, with characteristics "borrowed" from the existing grenades/gun model styles, and make it a pick-up (like akimbo), we can make it fit.

[V-Man]

As a power-up like the akimbo, this would be cool. Perhaps not lasting as long as the akimbo, though.

[Zarjio]

Before a grenade launcher is even considered, grenade physics need to be fixed. Grenades should not bounce with the same speed off players that they do off of walls. I also think it would be interesting to see grenades do minimal damage when they hit people.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

Grenades should not bounce with the same speed off players that they do off of walls.

Yes, this ticks me off when you aim so well it hits a player, but it bounces off and kills me/my teammates. It should just plop to the ground (and not bounce off the ground [unless maybe it's sloped ground] )

I also think it would be interesting to see grenades do minimal damage when they hit people.

Like 5 maybe? Would be cool (CoD does this) but it may mean in some cases you'd get a frag when you'd otherwise get a gib (unless this becomes a different type of kill that's two points)

As a power-up like the akimbo, this would be cool. Perhaps not lasting as long as the akimbo, though.

Yeah, with less time, perhaps a long respawn time, and no ammo pickup existing at all, it would balance it (and rectify the unrealistic conversion from hand-grenades to grenade rounds)

[al3rt]

If we get a grenade launcher we should also get a MOAB or a Nuke ^^ that would be nice in a cln match :D

[DES|Anderson]

Here's an idea, before we release any new primary/secondary weopons on the worl of AC why not run them as pickups with a sigle ammo clip. It would give the community am oppertunity to try things before they upset the game, it would also add greater variety and interest to the game.

Dont forget you can make maps without these pickups if you dont want them so no one needs to hate this idea.

[X-Ray_Dog]

Honestly, I'm not for this idea at all. It's a bit of an extremity to the game if anything. People complain enough about having overpowered weapons, lets not get crazy. You can hold three nades, new and some regular players hardly ever use those in the first place (their wonderful!). Plus they may have a new weapon in the works as it is so we wait.

[V-Man]

It is a good point that combat pistol will likely be activated before any other new weapon, but that isn't a proper reason to actually be against any other weapon.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

I've seen a Youtube video of the combat pistol code before (altfire is three round burst)
I think this sorta applies, not in the ammo sense, but "specialized" sense:

It wouldn't have that "unique" feel compared to the others I think, in spite of, or perhaps because of the weapon using specialized ammo (whereas other weapons in AC use standard ammo)

Yes I fully realize the CPistol is already in the works :P
Though I'm not sure if it is a primary/secondary (actually, it'd be cool to also have that be a pickup...) akimbo, combat pistol, and grenade launcher pickups :) Would make for some interesting maps/choices for routes.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Grenades should not bounce with the same speed off players that they do off of walls.

This idea has taken the background since MK has been away.

I've seen a Youtube video of the combat pistol code before (altfire is three round burst)

I wonder who made that \:D

[Felix-The-Ghost]

Who's MK?
RK is RandumKiwi...

Also: Combat Pistol Video
Are you "MrBRRAC"?

Append:
This looks pretty awesome

[Ronald_Reagan]

<3 V-Man

MK = Morgan Kell

MrBRRAC = Mr. B}Ronald_Reagan AssaultCube

It wasn't fun finding a yt name. I didn't want a president name on such a public site, and BRR was taken :(

[Felix-The-Ghost]

I hate how Youtube and Xbox Live don't allow for hyphens in your name (as in Felix-The-Ghost)
It freakin sucks.

Edit:Minecraft also is a non-believer of hyphens >:(

[V-Man]

*cough*injectionattack*cough*
And thanks for the remark about the video. It was me toying with the concept of a zombie script pack.