Nazi server?
#49
ty for attempting to respond properly guys it brings light to my world of darkness. sry if i lapse a bit while writing this, i had to respond to a lot of people. incoming huge wall of text below

(31 Dec 14, 04:59PM)+f0r3v3r+ Wrote: No, there is no direct harm caused to any individual directly, though maybe to your own reputation for being intentionally provocative and then questioning the response. But, hey, it's your time to waste how you choose.

However, I would argue that, as much as you have the right to offend others, others have the right to respond in the fashion they so choose.

No where does it say anyone has to put up with offenses and provocation in their online activities.

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If the parties responsible for maintaining the Masterserver configuration decide that your server name constitutes an offense, they have the right to block it from their service.
Right, wrong, or indifferent - Everyone has a right to their opinion, and free will dictates that people can respond in whatever way they choose.

before i address this, don't resort to the "there is no free speech on the internet" argument, because its a completely flawed argument, but i would need to write a small essay to deconstruct it and i can't really be bothered to be honest.

as individuals, sure. but when you're wielding structural authority (you could consider whoever runs the masterserver to be equal to the state for the purposes of this discussion), you don't have the right to restrict what you believe to be offensive. when you do that, you're restricting free speech unnecessarily for little actual benefit. what constitutes 'offensive' is a subjective concept.

(31 Dec 14, 04:59PM)+f0r3v3r+ Wrote: So as much as you have the right to name yourself what you will, others have an equal right to be offended and ban you.

consider the following situation: mpx insults me, i'm offended, but nobody else is. i happen to have admin. should i ban him from the server? no, because that is ego-centric, but i would do it anyway because i don't like him. that doesn't make it right, but do i really care? its the same thought process that occurs when admins ban people for nazi names. if the entire server is offended, there is a vote function available to ban the player in question. otherwise, just leave it.

(31 Dec 14, 04:59PM)+f0r3v3r+ Wrote: So it is a two-way street - You know it will offend people, so you do it. People get offended, and insult you. You mock and belittle them.
And now you wonder why someone hasn't come forth with the volumes of literature that it would be necessary to write to get you to understand what, in the end, you already know.

volumes of literature? lol. it just requires a bit of research. you don't need to use unnecessary vocabulary and commas to get your point across btw, it just makes it harder to read. i guess my lack of capital letters makes my writing harder to read, but w/e.

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(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Marti Wrote: ftr undead i wasnt commenting about you finding it ridiculous, more that you stated only germany has explicit laws against nazi references. i know you always do your research but you shouldve done slightly more research about this.

hence why i said 'AFAIK'. i was hoping someone would correct me, but no, i just got insulted. i really can't be bothered to search for information on a 64k connection. i have done exactly zero research for this thread; everything i'm talking about is from prior research.

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(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: So far your "excellents arguments" only consist in a false affirmation regarding the law restricting the freedom of speech in different countries and bragging about a good mark.

once again, you didn't read what i wrote properly. right there, you've cherry-picked parts from my argument and created a strawman. A+.

(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: From a purely legal point of view the best option is to ban. Its the easiest argument we can give. And we do not need to give further explanations.

and from your vast legal knowledge, what precedent are you drawing from that makes it the best option to ban him?

(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: So, what are you trying to do ? Are you trying to debate the legislation in the concerned countries ? Do you think it is the appropriate place to do it ? Do you think this guy is trying to express something interesting ? If he is trolling, why should we let him troll and assume there is a political message behind his acts ?

you're going on a paranoid schizophrenic rant again. if you read what i wrote, you'd notice that i'm drawing on rational legal precedents to argue against restricting speech. you haven't read enough on this subject; stay out of the discussion. i'm not concerned what he is trying to do; what i'm trying to say is that he is

(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: We are not fighting discriminations by banning players.

nobody is fighting discrimination in AC besides 1cap. AC is also not the place for discrimination protection because there is zero tangible harm that can result as of in-game actions.

(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: You are discussing something there is no point to debate on here. This thread is about banning a trouble maker. It is a fact : we kept receiving complaints, people are offended. The simplest option is to ban. That's all.

simplest option is never the wisest option. it does not matter

(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: Now, you might think there is no good censorship. It is a more and more common opinion. Ideally we could believe that in order to fight discriminations it is better to let xenophobic thoughts (for example) be expressed so as to fight them with rational arguments. This reasoning is a bit naive and has two main downsides :
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2) at the end it makes discriminations look more ordinary and it might actually increase them. also, a society focused on discriminations is not focused on something else. In France, for example, the extreme right wing movements have been depicted more and more as ordinary political movements for the past decade (while they clearly are not, considering how violent they are). As a result, we are now wasting time discussing religions, sexuality, immigration etc. instead of discussing what really matters. The extremism is also rising. The society is probably more divided and violent than it was 20 years ago.

hence why we have racial discrimination laws. however, a direct ban on political parties isn't going to solve anything.

(31 Dec 14, 05:19PM)Luc@s Wrote: So, if you are coherent, and if you suggest the Nazism should be treated as other political movements, you have to be anarchist or instead to accept that your country moral and values might change and promote Nazism (for example) some day.

dude what lol. you do realize there are more effective mechanisms to restrict hateful ideology than through just directly banning references to nazi imagery? if you ban speech that is intimidating/villifying/etc towards an ethnic group (e.g. Jews), that would also cover nazi salutes and the like, as nazi imagery implies intimidation towards jews.

lucas, i think you're close to the mark, you just need to improve your english comprehension skills (and maybe a bit of reading) so we can have a proper argument.

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(31 Dec 14, 05:25PM)Sveark Wrote: Undead, shared by the majority view is what you can't seem to accept. Even after 70 years, nazism remains undesirable for mentioning topic, and it's like an unspoken standard.

which is precisely why it needs to be talked about. a fear of discussing nazism isn't rational.

the reason de-nazification took place in europe is because fascism is a very emotional ideology; if the bullshit is allowed to propagate, it isn't hard to get people to agree with it.

if you believe something is correct just because the majority opinion says it is correct; you may just be the type of person who is at risk of developing extremist tendencies.

(31 Dec 14, 05:25PM)Sveark Wrote: How can the source, which is authoritative for you, be authoritative for the others? In what state did the system, that generated the opinion you've taken, remain at the time of producing it? How objective is it? Are there any hidden someone else's goals behind it? What if there are? Did you make sure that you were aware of at least one other point of view before posting yours for everyone to see?

what 'source' are you referring to? this is entirely my own opinion, albeit substantiated by a bit of (unbiased) research on the topic, from multiple sources.

(31 Dec 14, 05:25PM)Sveark Wrote: Finally, in what state did you remain when writing your post? Maybe you've watched a movie that have had an effect on your CNS and you didn't notice? Maybe you're in depression? Maybe you're just trying to make fun out of people in the Internet?

don't insult me. thanks.

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(31 Dec 14, 06:09PM)MPx Wrote: So maybe some admin can close it?

there is no need.

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(01 Jan 15, 03:02AM)Waffles Wrote: Every person has a right to fully express themselves if it does no tangible harm to others.

precisely. very profound statement. being offended does not constitute a harm. otherwise, we get into fuckery, as almost anything can be considered as rationally offensive. should dick cheney be considered an offensive name? should christmas decorations be considered offensive? it gets a little ridiculous. why not use better mechanisms to protect people from real harm?

(01 Jan 15, 03:02AM)Waffles Wrote: It's a problem you can see in America today with racism towards black people. Where I'm from in the south there are plenty of racists. Where I live now there are also plenty but it's far harder to tell who they are.

america also has very, very relaxed free speech laws. you could say this is a strong reason as for why bigots are so prevalent in the USA.
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Messages In This Thread
Nazi server? - by MPx - 30 Dec 14, 02:15PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 30 Dec 14, 03:39PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Luc@s - 30 Dec 14, 03:43PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 30 Dec 14, 04:03PM
RE: Nazi server? - by MathiasB - 30 Dec 14, 05:01PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Luc@s - 30 Dec 14, 04:04PM
RE: Nazi server? - by G1gantuan - 30 Dec 14, 04:44PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Luc@s - 30 Dec 14, 07:49PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 31 Dec 14, 12:41AM
RE: Nazi server? - by grenadier - 31 Dec 14, 10:15AM
RE: Nazi server? - by ExodusS - 31 Dec 14, 10:55AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Marti - 31 Dec 14, 12:05PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 31 Dec 14, 04:06PM
RE: Nazi server? - by PhaNtom - 30 Dec 14, 04:34PM
RE: Nazi server? - by MPx - 30 Dec 14, 05:23PM
RE: Nazi server? - by ExodusS - 30 Dec 14, 05:56PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Alien - 30 Dec 14, 06:03PM
RE: Nazi server? - by X-Ray_Dog - 30 Dec 14, 08:29PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Marti - 30 Dec 14, 09:57PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Luc@s - 30 Dec 14, 10:02PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Marti - 31 Dec 14, 01:08AM
RE: Nazi server? - by DeafieGamer - 30 Dec 14, 09:12PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Ronald_Reagan - 30 Dec 14, 09:50PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Halte - 31 Dec 14, 01:22AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 31 Dec 14, 01:29AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Vermi - 31 Dec 14, 01:54AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Halte - 31 Dec 14, 02:13AM
RE: Nazi server? - by 1Cap - 31 Dec 14, 02:46AM
RE: Nazi server? - by MPx - 31 Dec 14, 06:46AM
RE: Nazi server? - by MykeGregory - 31 Dec 14, 12:16PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Hellspell - 31 Dec 14, 04:37PM
RE: Nazi server? - by +f0r3v3r+ - 31 Dec 14, 04:59PM
RE: Nazi server? - by G1gantuan - 31 Dec 14, 05:12PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 01 Jan 15, 05:26AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Marti - 31 Dec 14, 05:19PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Luc@s - 31 Dec 14, 05:19PM
RE: Nazi server? - by MorganKell - 31 Dec 14, 05:23PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Sveark - 31 Dec 14, 05:25PM
RE: Nazi server? - by |HP| - 31 Dec 14, 05:59PM
RE: Nazi server? - by MPx - 31 Dec 14, 06:09PM
RE: Nazi server? - by MorganKell - 31 Dec 14, 06:20PM
RE: Nazi server? - by TheNihilanth - 31 Dec 14, 06:22PM
RE: Nazi server? - by +f0r3v3r+ - 31 Dec 14, 06:48PM
RE: Nazi server? - by TheNihilanth - 31 Dec 14, 07:02PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Hellspell - 31 Dec 14, 09:41PM
RE: Nazi server? - by MorganKell - 01 Jan 15, 02:57AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Waffles - 01 Jan 15, 03:02AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Roflcopter - 01 Jan 15, 01:55PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Vermi - 01 Jan 15, 03:20AM
RE: Nazi server? - by MorganKell - 01 Jan 15, 03:24AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Sveark - 01 Jan 15, 10:36AM
RE: Nazi server? - by Vermi - 01 Jan 15, 01:08PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Flames - 01 Jan 15, 10:57AM
RE: Nazi server? - by DES|Anderson - 01 Jan 15, 01:54PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Vermi - 01 Jan 15, 02:13PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Undead - 01 Jan 15, 02:35PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Sveark - 01 Jan 15, 02:19PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Vermi - 01 Jan 15, 02:51PM
RE: Nazi server? - by Mr.Floppy - 01 Jan 15, 07:55PM
RE: Nazi server? - by quico - 01 Jan 15, 02:50PM