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{BoB} Ladder News
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15 Dec 11, 07:21AM
When I implemented a ping threshold (max 270ms) I was frowned upon, the fcuk? While I appreciate the idea of improving the gameplay quality in the server, Geo-locking is not the solution, as I've witnessed people from EU manage to have a higher ping that someone from US.
15 Dec 11, 08:05AM
Yeah geo-locking is not the way we want to go. SKB, if you'd be willing to share via PM how you implemented ping thresholds we'd be appreciative. If not, thanks for the input.
If you absolutely need a ping threshold, at least choose something sensible like 500 or 750, and make sure you use some sort of average.
People claiming they can differentiate between a 150 and a 200 ping remind me of people buying those "oxygen-free" audio cables because it sounds better if the electrons didn't make contact with oxygen on the way... 
15 Dec 11, 01:46PM
 (15 Dec 11, 11:24AM)tempest Wrote: People claiming they can differentiate between a 150 and a 200 ping remind me of people buying those "oxygen-free" audio cables because it sounds better if the electrons didn't make contact with oxygen on the way...with all due respect, there is a huge difference between 50, 100 or 200 ping, especially if ur using automatic weapons and playing a clan match, at least for me... the funny thing is that we are arguing about the acceptable ping (130, 150, 200 or whatever) without actually knowing how to set it up :D... help needed ;) (15 Dec 11, 02:06PM)RAMPAGE Wrote: with all due respect, there is a huge difference between 50, 100 or 200 ping, especially if ur using automatic weapons and playing a clan match, at least for me...That could be PJ, but it's very unlikely to be related to ping. However, it could be that anti-cheat is sensitive to ping - apparently, I can't find out. Anyway, 50 milliseconds is less than half of an AR shot, so... Btw, ead http://wiki.cubers.net/action/view/Ping_and_PJ , if you haven't yet. Finally, and that's also something I was getting at with the audio cables analogon: you can only say "something's different", but you can't specify what. "There is a huge difference" doesn't mean anything from a technical point of view. Do your shots get dropped, do you have problems aiming, is the problem mainly related to your or to other's ping, and so on. (15 Dec 11, 05:29PM)tempest Wrote: Finally, and that's also something I was getting at with the audio cables analogon: you can only say "something's different", but you can't specify what. "There is a huge difference" doesn't mean anything from a technical point of view. Do your shots get dropped, do you have problems aiming, is the problem mainly related to your or to other's ping, and so on. I actually have more registered shots, but it appears that my opponent (that has usually worse accuracy than me) has more time to kill me and manages to have 1 ratio against me. and i experience his after death shots... As u know it's hard to explain it correctly without using proper terminology that i am not familiar with, but difference exists.
15 Dec 11, 11:47PM
No, he didn't have more time to shoot you. Him hitting you after you is the normal effect of ping. To quote the wiki...
http://wiki.cubers.net/action/view/Ping_and_PJ Wrote:It can be possible for the other player to kill you after you kill him, because in his time he fragged you first.Yes, (very) high ping can make a game feel really weird due to those "relativistic" effects, but you'll barely notice that at less than 500 or so.
16 Dec 11, 03:01AM
lol. people who complain of shots after death. e.g if im playing on a euro server and the first shot i shoot is delayed 400ms, then obviously the last shot is also delayed 400ms too (even after i die). that is also why people get hit behind the walls. e.g if i have 400ms delay, and i shoot the enemy before the wall. he only gets damaged 400ms later, after he goes around the wall.
jesus... its such a basic principal. 
16 Dec 11, 05:05AM
Honestly..if you want a game with no laggers go play a Highspeed only game..I find this pointless other than to stop the euros from crying over the lag (the portion that do, the ones who don't...kudos) This game was made for people with slow connections like myself and Bukz. I know this is an experimental server but it is really just taking the fun out of the pubs. Nobody likes to kill random noobs.
16 Dec 11, 08:55AM
Do u think it s a good solution?But only european will use ladder then ...
OK brazilian player hate us (same me they kick/ban me coz they dislike EU) but don't do what they did... After u can make : -BR ladder server -get us already B) -and EU And u keep one server hosted in center of world lol where ? for player who want play with "all players" and u offer them :) 
16 Dec 11, 08:56AM
(16 Dec 11, 03:01AM)kingCHUBBY Wrote: lol. people who complain of shots after death. e.g if im playing on a euro server and the first shot i shoot is delayed 400ms, then obviously the last shot is also delayed 400ms too (even after i die). that is also why people get hit behind the walls. e.g if i have 400ms delay, and i shoot the enemy before the wall. he only gets damaged 400ms later, after he goes around the wall. Yes Chubby it is a basic principle and now let me explain the other side as you clearly DONT get it. When you play fps games its common to not shoot at where your enemy is now but where you think he will be in 500ms (this is standard is almost all fps), when some one plays with 400 ping their position (as seen on the screen of the attacker) is not always true it will depend on things like if they are moving or not. Meaning the attacker wastes shots shooting at where the person used to be and not where they actually are! And just for all the people who will now say thats crap, its not because lag causes teh cameliion like movement you cant as you can with a normal player predict that players motion as they may sudenly leap forward causing all your shots to sail past them. That is why people dont like playing with others with high ping, that is also why its easier to get good ratio's on servers where you have high ping. Some people genuinely have poor internet connections, these are the people who can maintain ping at less than 200, others choose to play where their ping is in excess of 300. Those people are gaining an unfair advantage from using servers many many thousands of miles away and artificially inflating their abilities by using the lag. As for the shooting after death, same thing applies it just frustrates players making the whole experience not fun anymore. ohh and @lucky I dont believe this game was made for you and Bukz, but as long as you are having a good time at the expense of others well thats just great! This is not about changing the game or forcing my opinions on others, its about giving people choices. If we get rid of this server then people have no choice but to play with lagers. If we let this experiment run people will have a choice. Lucky you can still play just not in this server, and if you are right this will not be popular anyway, why are you so afraid of giving people a choice! 
16 Dec 11, 09:01AM
iirc, hits are detected clientside. Meaning that if you shoot at what you see, then you will kill what you shoot, not what you should be shooting accounting for ping.
Just FYI.
16 Dec 11, 09:11AM
Why do people not get this, its got nothing to do with hit reg. when i am shooting someone and i know someone is moving behind me (having seen them as i turn to face my enemy) i can judge where they will be turn and blast the crap out of em. Not so when they are laging like a granny on pension day.
And yes while its true that if you point your gun at someone the hit is only registered when you click the mouse and your crosshair is over them (not in front of them) but that is irrelevant. because it takes time for your brain to process and your fingers to move ect so you are always pointing slightly ahead of where you want to be. I find i may get one hit, then suddenly the player is behind me cause my client has updated his position after his lag. so instead of getting the chance to shoot him as he runs past I now have to turn around quickly and hope he doesnt warp again. I am getting bored explaining this, some people will never believe that lag effects gameplay, most other people know it does and for them i would say give this new server a go see if it works for you. 
16 Dec 11, 11:13AM
(16 Dec 11, 03:01AM)kingCHUBBY Wrote: lol. people who complain of shots after death. e.g if im playing on a euro server and the first shot i shoot is delayed 400ms, then obviously the last shot is also delayed 400ms too (even after i die). that is also why people get hit behind the walls. e.g if i have 400ms delay, and i shoot the enemy before the wall. he only gets damaged 400ms later, after he goes around the wall. f you are banned from the ladder bob for comment, even if you use a proxy to try to access the servers:)
16 Dec 11, 11:49AM
I will not argue anymore and this is my last post about this, cause most of you ppl know more than i do about pj and pings. I have read all the documentation u quoted in this thread and in theory it all works perfect, but in reality it doesn't. If i understand correctly,there are a lot of variables (some of them u guys have mentioned) and it's not same for everyone:
- u all have said that bigger ping usually means more unstable network, so if ping directly doesn't influence the gameplay, it can indirectly via pj - but more importantly, i think it depends on a gamestyle of certain players... if ur camping or hide behind boxes or try to surprise ur opponent (i don't say its bad or good way to play) i suppose that the difference isn't that big... on the other hand, if u are a rusher (like me) it really can influence ur achievement in the game cause the input and output are completely too different things, u expect something to happen (even count your bullets) but what u see on ur screen is somewhat different... to resume, i respect all u guys and what u have to say, i have read the documentation u have posted that reassures us that there isn't any difference playing guys with different pings, but i cannot call something "white" if i see it's "gray"... i never planed to argue about this because i thought it was obvious for u as it is for me, but it appears that it is not... opponent sides will keep defending their points of view no mater what, and i respect that, but i don't see any point to keep searching for unanimous "truth" ;)
16 Dec 11, 12:24PM
16 Dec 11, 12:50PM
(16 Dec 11, 08:56AM)DES|Anderson Wrote: Yes Chubby it is a basic principle and now let me explain the other side as you clearly DONT get it. When you play fps games its common to not shoot at where your enemy is now but where you think he will be in 500ms (this is standard is almost all fps)Exactly, and when you do this in AC, you'll just plain miss that guy, because hit detection is not influenced by lag! (16 Dec 11, 08:56AM)DES|Anderson Wrote: when some one plays with 400 ping their position (as seen on the screen of the attacker) is not always true it will depend on things like if they are moving or not.Yes, but their true position doesn't matter to the attacker - see above. (16 Dec 11, 08:56AM)DES|Anderson Wrote: you cant as you can with a normal player predict that players motion as they may sudenly leap forward causing all your shots to sail past them.Once and for all, the suddenly leaping forward is PJ, not ping! (16 Dec 11, 08:56AM)DES|Anderson Wrote: ohh and @lucky I dont believe this game was made for you and Bukz, but as long as you are having a good time at the expense of others well thats just great!Please refrain from throwing dirt around. I guess Bukz would be more than grateful if you paid him a fiber connection to his home. (16 Dec 11, 09:11AM)DES|Anderson Wrote: And yes while its true that if you point your gun at someone the hit is only registered when you click the mouse and your crosshair is over them (not in front of them) but that is irrelevant. because it takes time for your brain to process and your fingers to move ect so you are always pointing slightly ahead of where you want to be. I find i may get one hit, then suddenly the player is behind me cause my client has updated his position after his lag. so instead of getting the chance to shoot him as he runs past I now have to turn around quickly and hope he doesnt warp again.We had that already: ping and PJ are different things. If it helps you, you can just assume that you and your client don't know about lag. 
16 Dec 11, 01:06PM
tempest Wrote:Once and for all, the suddenly leaping forward is PJ, not ping! gRamps Wrote:- u all have said that bigger ping usually means more unstable network, so if ping directly doesn't influence the gameplay, it can indirectly via pj
16 Dec 11, 02:19PM
Whether it's a placebo affect or not, it doesn't really matter.
For those of you in other countries, sorry. For those of you with bad internet connections, sorry. It's merely our aim to provide servers for people who want to play. If that means making a few servers where people are more comfortable playing so be it. Ignore those servers or put them on your hate list. If it isn't directly affecting you I don't really see the problem personally. There are many justifications for either argument as Rampage pointed out. Let's just beat the crap outta each other in servers that aren't euro only :P
Considering a lot of the euros have reported 100 or less ping on this thread, it seems this experiment may be working. And that server is packed with players every time I pubbed yesterday.
* Nightmare pokes Verse to get B}Free up and going again. no laggers/no shotguns. <3
16 Dec 11, 03:00PM
(This post was last modified: 16 Dec 11, 03:03PM by DES|Anderson.)
@tempest you are the one throwing dirt around so stfu!
This was supposed to be a test if it makes no difference then the test will show that, I end my posts on this matter with two comments; 1. All the serious players out there dont want to play clan matches with people who have high pings/pj's now ask yourself why is that? 2. Why when a topic starts as a reasonable discusion do people always try and railroad it by posting inflamatory comments (chubby you are banned from the ladder this server is on anyway so why are you geting involved) the post was about BoB ladder test server. Let people have there own ideas, if you guys want to believe that high ping means nothing then good luck to you, i look forward to seeing posts of your clan matches where the oposition has ping 400 and you 40. Dont hate people becuase they have a different idea to you, mayeb they are right, maybe not who cares! if they wana test out a theory, let them you might learn something. Oh and just a quick edit, ping is not related to warping its PJ, really! Well when people use the cheat that gives them speed in game they are using this principle, its not their PJ that gives them away its the ping that rises as they speed. Now if you are so sure about your facts maybe you can explain that :) 
40 60 or 80 ping, i care.
The lag is banned from all other games, even if laggers have all their chances to kill on AssaultCube, they will always continue to shot me throught walls (yeah i know it's not really throught walls...but it's the feel) and it sucks. Why do LAN exist then? 
16 Dec 11, 06:50PM
I think we should all just deal with it, no matter what happens ping/pj lag will always be here
16 Dec 11, 09:43PM
(16 Dec 11, 05:45PM).ExodusS* Wrote: 40 60 or 80 ping, i care.please read previous posts (especially tempest's ones)
16 Dec 11, 09:45PM
(16 Dec 11, 03:00PM)DES|Anderson Wrote: @tempest you are the one throwing dirt around so stfu!How so? (16 Dec 11, 03:00PM)DES|Anderson Wrote: 1. All the serious players out there dont want to play clan matches with people who have high pings/pj's now ask yourself why is that?Will you ever stop mixing up ping and PJ? Not willing to play with people with high PJ: totally reasonable. Not willing to play with people with high ping: reasonable too for really high pings, but for 200 or so it's unreasonable. (16 Dec 11, 03:00PM)DES|Anderson Wrote: 2. Why when a topic starts as a reasonable discusion do people always try and railroad it by posting inflamatory commentsWelcome to the internet. (16 Dec 11, 03:00PM)DES|Anderson Wrote: i look forward to seeing posts of your clan matches where the oposition has ping 400 and you 40.I would be interested in seeing that as well. (16 Dec 11, 03:00PM)DES|Anderson Wrote: Dont hate people becuase they have a different idea to youI don't hate people. I'm just telling them that IMO they are putting the cart before the horse. (16 Dec 11, 03:00PM)DES|Anderson Wrote: Well when people use the cheat that gives them speed in game they are using this principle, its not their PJ that gives them away its the ping that rises as they speed.I'm not sure what you mean with that - speedhackers or intentional warpers? In the first case, they might artificially raise their ping to avoid detection by anti-cheat, or they might be idiots and have f*ed up things on the way, resulting in a high ping. In the second case, high ping is merely a side effect. Obviously, if they temporarily block or delay all packets, ping packets can't make it through or get through with a huge delay, therefore the ping rises.
16 Dec 11, 10:44PM
Ping/PJ should be in a different discussion.
Personal opinions on the server should be PM'ed to Waffles or gRamps. Anything else (on topic) goes. I'll hand out warning points if you dont respect this. I dont want to close this thread. Oh, I will hand out warning points to mods/admins too. |
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