Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[V-Man]

Did you actually look at the SMG stat changes in the code?
After testing it for a while, playing 1104 SMG kicked my butt.

[Elite]

nah V-Man, i didnt. I just know that the damage is around 15-15,5 .

[Nightmare]

nah V-Man, i didnt. I just know that the damage is around 15-15,5 .

The .5 packs a punch. :)

[Elite]

maybe :)
V-Man can you tell me how i can find the fastest way the stats for smg, when i am looking in the code blocks and search for A-/ARD10 idk how long i would search.

[flowtron]

The basic constants are defined in server.h (Look for "guninfo guns" (line ~475)) - but the SMG has a little knack to it, with alternating damage (see weapon.cpp (line ~1172 (and "friends"))); also the shotgun-damage is a totally seperate algorithm and can't be read from that table. HTH

[Dade]

I'm gonna get killed by some folks of ED for posting this - and maybe some's more - but... what about raising bullet spread of sniper rifle when shooting unscoped?

It would need more skills to use sniper rifle and unscoped shots can still be a resource on close combats.

GGz!

[Nightmare]

^ yeah <3

(and kill the Assault Rifle <3)

[Dade]

Why you think it would kill AR?

[flowtron]

Please - do NOT start a flame-war on this.
I highly suspect there's an inherent misunderstanding of the last two posts possible. Many people posting here are not aware that tone of voice is not represented in the pure letters of their phrases .. or that quite a number of readers do not speak english as their first language, or have more than a basic school education in it - which makes "subtle humour" a risk at best.

Dade: amping the spread on unscoped rifle was discussed in the early stages of the balancing discussion; we actually did up it a bit already, not something you'd notice straight-away .. which was also part of the "mission parameters" - we didn't want a totally changed game, just tweaked for optimized balance.
ATM we're still fiddeling with the finer elements of the shotgun, we're very happy with all the rest of the weapons.
This isn't to say that future releases won't need further tweaking, but that's an issue for another day. A day in the future, when the current balance has been played "live" (and not just in SVN-testing) for a while and the potential of further tweakage can be gauged properly.

[Nightmare]

Why you think it would kill AR?

That was a separate idea.
;)
back to 15 round magazine for AR <3

AR worries me more than overcrowded pubs with a decent shotgun. :(

[ExodusS]

back to 15 round magazine for AR <3

i agree, 20 bullets is too mutch a lot (enough to kill 2 players)

[pweaks]

back to 15 round magazine for AR <3

i agree, 20 bullets is too mutch a lot (enough to kill 2 players)

Omg, you can kill 2 players with 1 mag!!11 You can kill over 2 people with 1 SMG mag, also with sniper.

[Nightmare]

back to 15 round magazine for AR <3

i agree, 20 bullets is too mutch a lot (enough to kill 2 players)

Omg, you can kill 2 players with 1 mag!!11 You can kill over 2 people with 1 SMG mag, also with sniper.

15 round mag would only take down one less unarmored than the smg.
unless I screwed something up, which is a possibility. :O
Earlier on this thread somebody posted about how the AR & SMG compare against armored enemies, and the AR won easily(the 2 less damage of svn ar probably shouldn't change this too much, or maybe it does. And speedhax rifle sprinting. Seems balanced to me. :)

[ExodusS]

If you all think that everyone can own public games with the easy sniper, do this and post the screenshot.



I think i'll get a few screens...

[Snoosnoo]

Fffff... I got 94 with sniper. :'(

[ExodusS]

So post and be proud to be one of the last sniper here. :)

[flowtron]

Could we try to stay .. somehwat .. on-topic?!
I know, basically you guys have a lot of fun just chit-chatting away - but this thread is meant as a serious discussion - and more importantly reference - for developers to gauge the viability of the gruelsome, ephemeral and illusive prospect of a balanced weapon-set.
Even though we know, and acknowledge, that some players play one weapon exclusively this does not deterr us from the vision of a game in which each weapon has at least the basic chance of being balanced against any other. Please remember, we're not aiming at realism, but at a fun game. If you want realism - join a live army, go to war and get your ass blown to bits by an enemy who laid down mines decades ago and probably had their legs torn off by their then-enemy almost just the day after.

[ExodusS]

this thread is meant as a serious discussion

get your ass blown to bits by an enemy who laid down mines decades ago and probably had their legs torn off by their then-enemy almost just the day after.

I'm serious, i can't play publics on 1.1 anymore.

[Nightmare]

15 round magazine AR convo was "serious". :)
I know at least two devs who agree that the world will end in 2012 due to AC's Assault Rifle. :'(

Good luck with the weapon balance, and the next release in general. :D

[DarKnoT]

As Exoduss said, I can't play on pub but for another reason, the shotgun. But yeah it will be fixed in the next release.

Why do people play with shotgun? The only answer is "SPLAT".
They see that they can kill someone and detonate him with one bullet. For new players it is so funny to splat just by clicking without aiming, there is no tactic, just click and splat :/

[Orynge]

Umm... this discussion isn't about the current version (1.1.0.4).

EDIT: The SVN weapon balance has changed a lot compared to 1.1.0.4.

[Elite]

Yeah, indeed.

Shotgun is for public noobs.

Btw, why we cant change back to the old 1.0.4 smg compared to the AR of 1.1.0.4 it should be balanced. The new algorithm of the spread is really shit atm.

With this new helmets its really hard for sniper, so they got less and less. You need a really high accuracy to master this weapon, if you do , you own everyone.

Any possible date for the release existing?

[jAcKRoCk*]

The helmet isn't really an issue, you can still kill with a headshot or the right timing, sniper turned harder not for the helmet but because of the tiny hitbox of the head, remember we all used to have a large invisible hitbox over the shoulders and above the head, now that's gone.

[Nightmare]

As Exoduss said, I can't play on pub but for another reason, the shotgun. But yeah it will be fixed in the next release.

Why do people play with shotgun? The only answer is "SPLAT".
They see that they can kill someone and detonate him with one bullet. For new players it is so funny to splat just by clicking without aiming, there is no tactic, just click and splat :/

I never hit anything without aiming with the shotty. :(

[V-Man]

The new algorithm of the spread is really shit atm.

Never insult the source code without having a replacement ready.

[Cemer]

Never insult the source code without having a replacement ready.

why you fire him

[V-Man]

If a piece of source code needs to be "fired," it should only be done when a new piece of source code can take its place.
If.
IF
OKAY

[Cemer]

OKAY [?]

yes

[Roflcopter]

Shotgun is for public noobs.

But it shouldn't be just a public weapon.

Btw, why we cant change back to the old 1.0.4 smg compared to the AR of 1.1.0.4 it should be balanced. The new algorithm of the spread is really shit atm.

The spread is better on the whole as shown by these SMG spread values taken after n bullets (n starting at zero):

1110 Spread: 45, 50, 55, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70, ...
1104 Spread: 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, ...

With this new helmets its really hard for sniper, so they got less and less. You need a really high accuracy to master this weapon, if you do , you own everyone.

I'm not a good sniper by any means but I can mostly hit a single shot before dieing. That's an easy 80 damage on most encounters. For that ability, the sniper has to be weaker at finishing kills.

[Ronald_Reagan]

From what I hear from Flowtron, nothing is certain until they start working on the weapon. They are working starting on the shotgun. They do not want to change the values much, just tweak them so they work.

Point of that choppy paragraph? Hold off talking about the SMG :)
Want to help with the shotty?

[SELECT ALL] Code:

SGDMGTOTAL 95
SGCCdmg 470
SGCMdmg 338
SGCOdmg 191
SGDMGDISTB 50
SGDMGBONUS 62
SGCCbase 0
SGCCrange 53
SGCMbase 33
SGCMrange 64
SGCObase 57
SGCOrange 84

glhf