[split] AssaultCube Score stuff

[MorganKell]

V-Man people haven't listened to me since day 1. I am not throwing mud. I am instead hurling snowballs at a misguided shimmy. What his ilk and everyone else here doesn't understand is that I grew up on whipping out the varied forms of awesomeness. My style is one of focus. One of a form of a hatred purified into a tunnelistic goal. I attack people because if I don't then who will? If they can't defend their arguments against a true blue shimmy then how are they going to defend themselves against the likes of frit0, Getty or Carglass? Thickening the hide is what I do and no one will stop me. You want a lovey dovey game with agreement all around? Cool. I'm here to give you one that is man enough to stand up for it's awesomeness and demand it be taken seriously. Two sides of the same coin? Perhaps... but a true fucking patriot? ALWAYS.

[Lantry]

first of all, you aren't arguing, you are just insulting.
second of all, if attacking people 'to toughen them up' is acceptable, then how come people get banned for using cheats when they are 'just trying to figure out how to stop them'?

EDIT: sorry.
anyway, the score section and the frags section should switch places on the scoreboard, and knives and hs should be worth more points but still only one frag. I would also recommend renaming 'frags' to 'kills', just to make the distinction clearer.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Ya'll read the thread subject now. Thank you!

[MorganKell]

Lantry, your argument is valid, but ultimately worthless. I am NOT attacking Brahma. I asked a question in my original post that a solid shimmy would have replied to instantly. What I am attacking is his attitude of OHEMGEE. If he had replied to my question or just the general basis of the discussion i.e. don't destroy something else in this game, then we wouldn't having this discussion.

I agree this thread has gotten off topic, but that is no fault of mine. I made a point. Simple and true. The lovey dovey ram you where it hurts attitude around here, fostered in this case by BanZrU, decided to pick a completely different side of the argument and run it from there. An ultimately personal side that has nothing to do with anything. So who is really to blame?

[Greifenstein]

mimimimimimimimimimimimiiii....

Don´t touch the the headshot scores, seriously. What are these 2 points anyway, i mean if you´re a decent SMGer or ARer or a well armored shotgun player you´ll have a good chance to kill twice as much people thus gaining the same amount of points. And i think scoring a headshot isn´t the same crap as a dumb shotgun splat.
What would really improve AC is a new player model, with a new hitbox, (more and up-to-date movement animations), and maybe a decent package handling, so that a tactical and efficient gameplay becomes more attractive.

[Duckett]

Do not remove the 2 point headshots, I say this because, it is extremely hard for someone like me, just trying to make a name for him/herself in this game, to get more than one headshot per game, using the sniper. Ultimately, I have knowledge of most guns, smg, ar, carbine, shotgun, and sniper. But as stated before. Shotguns, ARs, and SMGers can get double the amount of points, if they are decent enough to do so.

My argument here is that Getting headshots, is NOT at all easy, sure maybe it is for people like M|A, or Shorty over there, but for common people, just trying to get a decent score, and trying to enjoy this game for what it truely is, it is less of a simple task

Why, should we really get rid of the sniper?

[#M|A#Wolf]

What about simply making the chance of headshotting harder? Making the headshot hitbox smaller or use RR's idea of only 2 points if the other player was moving, but I would really prefer if it would stay the same.

[basic]

I am confused. As I understand how this game netcode works: Unless you implemented a cool down that made sniper gun terrible, a sniper player would still be shown as moving before he kills you. He would simply have to stop right before seeing you and shoot?

Why not implement something like a random direction kickback? would make a pistol follow up much harder (increases risk)? And adjusting the hitboxes? If you do worsen the spread, I recommend removing the smoke trail unless zoomed in. Its misleading.

I agree with Lantry, but maybe also adjust the points so they come closer in line with how many "frags" someone used to have. I don't know how many points a headshot kill is, but scaling it so a kill is worth 1 point would satisfy people playing for the scoreboard? I know its a design decision not to do this before, but with the nerfs to "frags" it would satisfy those who want a 2:1 score (which is what they were achieving before anyway). The difference being team elements are now worked into the scoreboard better, so those playing for the scoreboard are also playing for team oriented points as well.

I'd also recommend removing deaths from the scoring system, it would allow rankings to go by points per death or points per second or something without skewing the results against people who die more often.

[Shorty]

... the main issue is: I know I do not have skill... but I am still able to do it... so something IS WRONG.

Yes, the thing that is wrong is that your playing with low levels players, verse some good players and try get 30% headshots, simply won't happen.

[Viper]

Davitomon gets 100% headshots... :D

Damn why are these posts so looooooooooonggggg...

[Gibstick]

Basic, Randomness will make the game worse. Players should be able to control as much as they can.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Maybe DM should then be counted by score, not frags?
Score system isn't really used too much.

[Lantry]

not just DM, all the modes. The score should be the first thing counted after flags. HS and knife kills should only give you one frag, but would give you twice as much score as a normal point would. This would allow for a much finer tweaking than going between 1 and 2 frags, you could just adjust the score given by a little bit. the frags column should be switched with the score column. the devs put all this work into creating a good scoring system, even giving points for using the voicecoms! currently, this doesn't matter because the score only matters if flags and kills are tied.

[V-Man]

The issue is then to determine whether score is more of a determining factor in the outcome of a game than, for example, frags in a TDM, or flags in a flag-based game. If it's not decided early on, there will be endless flames going in circles about which is more prestigious or deciding.

[Xenon]

I think the headshot should stay the same it is now. In clan matches A. If the sniper misses he dies and B. Sometimes he hits the body but the AR/SMG will still overpower it.

@ Brahma, the sniper getting a headshot is a good reward because as I said before, if you miss your shot your dead and if you hit the body you can still easily die. Even headshots are very hard because CM's are usually played on european servers. Thus I, and a whole lot of other aussies and other countries lag quite a bit so even then that is really hard to headshot a 400 ping player. Also

Overall the sniper should stay the same as all the good snipers that practice to get headshot, it would be ruined for them. If we switched the sniper we could also risk loosing some of the community that play sniper only. That would really not be good. :-)

EDIT: Also, try play some inters will skilled players with a sniper and see how many headshot's you get.

[basic]

Basic, Randomness will make the game worse. Players should be able to control as much as they can.

Yes bad idea on my part. Increasing spread also increases randomness and hurts skill of getting headshots.

[Brahma]

... the main issue is: I know I do not have skill... but I am still able to do it... so something IS WRONG.

Yes, the thing that is wrong is that your playing with low levels players, verse some good players and try get 30% headshots, simply won't happen.

Yes.... your argument is solid now.
But it moves me in the direction of RR solution: If the enemy is standing (like a noob), it should not give 2 frags for a hs.

[Bukz]

That sounds more fair @ Brahma. F1 :)

[Robtics]

I would actually agree on the headshot = 1 frag but RR's idea is great!

[castiel]

The standing still sounds good, but could maybe /mastermode (1||2) disable this? In a competitive match if a player is camping etc and not moving don't they really deserve to have given the enemy 2 frags?

It would also lead to snipers standing still on depot main etc, so as to not give the enemy 2 frags :P

[Brahma]

It is awesome to see consensus (it does not mean we will change anything!)

I agree with castiel... the match/private modes should not be affected by these ideas. Matches *are* different from pub games... and I do the mistake of always thinking in pubs.

[Luc@s]

Yes it's nice to see how a dicussion can be useful;

But imho the game has to stay really simple. Scoring system should be the same all the time;
Points shouldn't be use to sort players;
Gib should always worth extra points (maybe not as frags, but at least as points)
The game became a bit more complicated with 1.1 (gib isn't always 2 frags, points system came, etc.)
Maybe it's time to think about something more simple.

[Brahma]

Sometimes, simplicity is a complex thing.
If you enter in this dark fog, you will find people advocating to remove the crouch, for example.

[MorganKell]

If someone is standing they don't get two points for a headshot? Are you kidding? That's the stupidest idea ever. Last time I checked snipers don't jump up and down and move all around. They line up their shot in a perfectly still position, and once they have it, they shoot. The moving if anything is different. Leave campers alone. That's what snipers do. They camp! A good player will work around this and devise a tactic to take them out. What's wrong with rewarding tactical thinkers? Everyone who plays that game ostracizes the person anyways. Let them have the solace of a 2 point headshot. What if you're tired of moving around all the time and want to go tactical? Sit somewhere and turn a route on a map into Death Valley? That's not only fun for the sniper but also the attackers. They get to figure out a way to strategically remove a very dangerous obstacle or die trying. It's called war.

[Roflcopter]

To be honest, it's better as either always one frag or always two frags. Anything dependant on motion will be gamed by smart players (as Castiel pointed out).

One good reason for putting headshots and knifes to 1 point is simply to deter lag knifing in OSOK. In confined spacing it's common for players to shoot their opponent first and then be knifed by them. The first player (who settled with just a shot) could have knifed his opponent later but tried to kill him quickly so as not to die himself. Since knifing gains two points his enemy only needs to hit his knife half the time to stay even.

Somewhat related is the issue that deaths are shown further left than score but score is more important in deciding which side won that deaths. This is really unintuitive!

[Brahma]

@ Roflcopter

Lag is really an unsolvable thing we must take always into account. I prefer to think the server is always right, so, if some player lags in relation to the server, he should take a disadvantage (and not the opposite, as it is common giving your example).

Even being a consensus in the community that laggers are evil and they should be kicked when they get advantage for this, the current system does not disrupt them as it should.

Disrupting the laggers (in relation to the server) to knife/headshot is a good thing, imo.

[Zarjio]

Somewhat related is the issue that deaths are shown further left than score but score is more important in deciding which side won that deaths. This is really unintuitive!

Deaths are further to the right on the scoreboard...

And I can't believe that making headshots worth 1 point is even being discussed. They are extremely hard to get (for me, at least) and should totally be worth double the points.

EDIT: Also, I can't believe that "score" (this meaningless hypothetical quantity that is really only useful for balancing teams in inters) is being discussed as an alternative for frags! Clearly, if your team is better at scoring (defending, capturing, and killing) then it will be reflected in the number of flags and frags you have. And anyways, the point of deathmatch is to kill the enemy team, not find special ways of killing them that will earn you more points. The point of CTF is to capture the flag, not earn points for doing things that you should be doing anyways.
After all, in a game of basketball (as a random example), teams don't win by having more steals, rebounds, or anything else. They win by scoring more.

[V-Man]

Morgan...
They're talking about whether the target is holding still.

[MorganKell]

That's still ridiculous.

[V-Man]

I sort of agree, but at the same time, it's probably a tiny bit more ridiculous that it's worth 2 frags to get a headshot on an AFK player, or some poor noob who can't figure out WASD.