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Lately I have seen so many topics about people hacking. The difference is, these are people who everyone trusts. Who everyone has played with before. Who everyone has talked too or played a clan match. Who you think would never do it. It seems many skilled players keep turning into "cheaters". What I don't get is this, why? They are fine skilled players with a lot of potential? Why waste all of the time you spent on this game, making friends and all that stuff, then it just goes all to waste? I think this might have been some of the most hackers I have seen in my AC career. Look at how many topics there are. There is like 6 topics all together. And not only that, people are being blacklisted for some of the dumbest things I have ever seen. If we don't limit our blacklists, then what players will be playing AC. To me it seems that all of the potential players become too tempted and cheat. So my last question is, Why are there so many hackers right now?
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IMO it has a lot to do with competitiveness. At one point, everyone realizes they can practice all they want but never get better then what they have become. The only option for 'getting better' is cheating. (Which isn't quite getting better, because there is no advance in skill whatsoever)
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People realize they will never improve with the crappy fps/mouse they have.
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Actually, it was a lot worse some time ago. Back then, when Brahma started hunting down cheaters, some of the (seemingly) best and also best-known players turned out to be cheaters.
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I'm not asking why they cheat, I am more of asking why there are so many of them. AC is not fun with hackers. Why do all the people with potential decide to hack when they already have skill.
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Because they want to get even better, they never feel good enough. I think that for some good players, being good is like a drug, they always have to get more, regardless of the means.
However, I have to stress that most of the good players are just that (good) and either don't feel like cheating or are reasonable enough to just not do it.
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I'm pretty sure skilled players don't cheat.
In that same vein, cheaters are almost never hackers. Don't glorify the cheats.
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12 Apr 11, 07:09PM
(This post was last modified: 12 Apr 11, 07:10PM by tempest.)
Was Davitomon not skilled? I was thinking of him in particular.
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12 Apr 11, 08:49PM
(This post was last modified: 12 Apr 11, 09:08PM by Alien.)
You are mixing two types of people in this game, cheaters and hacking players. Cheater is a kid who downloads hacked client with obvious improvements. For such people here are anti-cheat coders and blacklist masters. They form "nice" community. Then here are hidden hacking players who play for themselves (or a clan) and build their community avatar with these hidden improvements. I am a bit paranoid here and i think it is almost everybody who is able to play 2 textured Cube.
So the first type can be removed by better anti-hack (blacklist) and second type by removing the motivation.(avatar position based on skills) But it can be very difficult in FPS game. (more custom maps, more mapping, etc. and player is able then even accept the lost, i have tested this evolution of player, for the member of community should be the competition only minor part of this game)
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This is bad... because this time I must agree with Alien.
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When i first starter Davitomon was an outstanding player, and i try to learn from him but then he turned out to be a cheater, and you kinda wonder who else is?
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13 Apr 11, 12:17AM
(This post was last modified: 13 Apr 11, 12:20AM by MorganKell.)
Davitomon had skills. He probably just got to a point in his gaming career where he said screw it. The pressure to be good and stay good was too much. So he started hacking / cheating.
There are other reasons a skilled player may choose to hack / cheat. Changes in a game may make it not worth playing anymore. All that skill that that player had stored up becomes useless. That could push someone to hack / cheat. This is few and far between but very plausible. Maybe they haven't gotten the recognition they believe they deserve in the game's community. An attitude of "Screw it. Screw this. Screw YOU" might pop up. They may start hacking / cheating because they don't give a crap about anyone else anymore and are tired of trying for nothing. Naturally both reasons are quite abhorrent but understandable to a degree.
Finally we have one more thing to talk about, and that's forgiveness. If someone apologizes for past hacking / cheating, and is truly repentant for the most part, what's the criteria for letting them back? How do we forgive? Do we forgive? How do we tell the reformed from the malicious? Does a new version mean a second chance? Innocent until proven guilty? Or do they stay banned for all eternity?
In Davitomon's case, I think some major forgiveness is needed. The man was a good player, a solid part of the old community, and a true shimmy back in the day. He apologized via AC Radio. Most if not all of the "community", I use the term lightly because it's really a TyDes-munity these days, has forgiven him. Even offering outside help to a clan that's not even his managed to get them blacklisted (think legacy. here). Whereas it was legacy.'s response, i.e. tag-evading an unfair and viciously psychotic ban, that has kept them banned. BUT BUT BUT... that is enough of that. Next up oNe. Supposedly they have a hacker / cheater in their ranks. Now he may or may not have hacked / cheated back then, but he doesn't now. Yet they're banned. Naturally I'm not trying to tell the major clan who runs the blacklist these poor shimmies are on how to do things, I'm just bringing up the point of forgiveness. It's about time they started showing some. Time to start leading by example and put the fun back in AC. It's a game, not a I PAY FOR ALL SERVER, DEY MINE, kind of thing. Or a YOU RUINING QUALITY GAME, YOU DIE NOW. It's an accept that people can't behave correctly ALL the time. It's a live and let live. Some things require hardcore bannage while the majority of them do not.
Regrettably I have gone off on a tangent i.e. I'm using more periods instead of commas, and my thoughts aren't flowing as awesomely as they should be right now. I should wrap it up. Let's forgive and forget when the new version comes out. Let's have some fun. FyI I prefer beating down those skilled players who hack / cheat and then laughing at them uncontrollably for a good 15-20 minutes inbetween beers. It's like icing on the cake after a hard day's work.
Have fun shimmies.
PS:: V-Man totally hacks / cheats the forums. He timestamps that ass like the dingo who ate Shorty's baby. How else is his post count so high?
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(13 Apr 11, 12:17AM)MorganKell Wrote: PS:: V-Man totally hacks / cheats the forums. He timestamps that ass like the dingo who ate Shorty's baby. How else is his post count so high?
Lmfao, That's Hilarious
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AssaultCube is an opensource game- THAT is why there are so many cheaters and hackers :P
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13 Apr 11, 02:41AM
(This post was last modified: 13 Apr 11, 02:42AM by Roflcopter.)
(12 Apr 11, 03:03PM)bballn45 Wrote: It seems many skilled players keep turning into "cheaters".
Some of the recent accusations have also been a bit weak in my opinion; I don't think many of them are necessarily cheaters.
(12 Apr 11, 03:03PM)bballn45 Wrote: So my last question is, Why are there so many hackers right now?
I don't think there are really.
(13 Apr 11, 12:17AM)MorganKell Wrote: Let's forgive and forget when the new version comes out. Let's have some fun.
This. I think the new version should be a chance for a fresh start.
One major reason to do this is some players were blacklisted with dubious evidence (Sepehr, Panicow) and since they still play will not become unblacklisted ever. Additionally other players that did cheat and were blacklisted might consider turning over a new leaf... if they were unblacklisted.
After all, if the unblacklisted players continue to cheat they'll be blacklisted again.
Truth be told, I'd like to forget the blacklist anyway -- with TyD's policy of banning innocent players in the same team as an alleged cheater, blacklists are becoming full of innocent players (from teams like w00p, oNe, GrZ, BME and legacy) too.
I simply hate TyD's attitude that seems to see collateral damage as inevitable. I consider innocent players being blacklisted as absolutely unacceptable.
{TyD}Apollo Wrote:We have already blacklisted a whole country (nearly a whole continent) in the past. Why does [sic] some people think that we are afraid about a few clans?
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13 Apr 11, 03:33AM
(This post was last modified: 13 Apr 11, 03:34AM by Viper.)
This is true and all, but let me ask a question. Who (besides DES, w00p, and TyD) doesn't use their blacklist?
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(13 Apr 11, 03:33AM)Viper Wrote: This is true and all, but let me ask a question. Who (besides DES, w00p, and TyD) doesn't use their blacklist?
Whose blacklist? I'm not sure I understand the question fully.
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Oh lord, PLEASE. DO NOT turn this thread thread into another "We hate TyD" thread, for the love of god. If you have something against them, PM them your flames, opinions, ideas, whatever or post in their forum, but stop with this bullsh*it.
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(13 Apr 11, 03:42AM)|BC|Wolf Wrote: Oh lord, PLEASE. DO NOT turn this thread thread into another "We hate TyD" thread, for the love of god. If you have something against them, PM them your flames, opinions, ideas, whatever or post in their forum, but stop with this bullsh*it.
My post is on topic and doesn't have anything to do with my opinions of TyD. My post just deals with blacklisting in general as a response to MorganKell. TyD's blacklist is relevant to this, but my opinions of them are not. As such no opinions of the clan itself were made; merely its policies and attitudes which are relevant to why so many people are blacklisted.
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Let Halo come in and lay down some stuff now.
I'd like to think of hacks as sports professionals do steroids. There are alot of great sport players out there that use drugs to get above the rest. Same is true of Assault Cube, there are alot of players who are already good, but want to be above the rest. I think most good agree with this comparison. Hacking is a drug in any sense. Why some players who are already great in their own right do such is still a mystery. Most likely it is the fact they simply do not like losing.
About the other topic at hand in this thread, TyD and when to forgive people. I think if you do a crime you should do the time. For example, if someone murders a family, spends 4 to 5 months in jail and apologizes, should he be set free, of course not. All negative acts in the Assault Cube community result in a punishment of some kind. Hacking carries the weight of a year to date ban, now if more things happen with that person (i.e trolling, more hacking, flaming, etc) this could result in longer time, and if he is clean could result in a shorter time. Simply saying you are sorry and giving a slap on the wrist is not always best or the right thing to do, people need laws and punishment to learn from mistakes and not make them again in the future.
Now to the hardest of things to discuss, and thats only because their are so many different opinions about it these days, and thats TyD. TyD has been around for years (over 3 now to be exact) and like anything that has been around awhile, some people will feel that they have warned out their welcome. This is just simply a matter of opinion. TyD controls (mostly controls) our blacklist, which is law and order around here. Some people can't grasp the fact of law and order and would like to think things would be better with anarchy. In an anarchist community things would be alot worse (and yes I know someone will disagree with that, in which case, we can take it up on irc). Most people's opinions about TyD are just that, opinions. Its learning when keeping your opinions to yourself/your closest friends, that is important and what some people dearly need to learn to do.
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(13 Apr 11, 04:27AM)DES|Halo Wrote: TyD controls (mostly controls) our blacklist
<joking>
I vote to breakup this monopoly!
</joking>
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13 Apr 11, 05:58AM
(This post was last modified: 13 Apr 11, 04:59PM by tempest.)
-sorry-
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If there's one thing I know for sure, it's this: there is no "100% anti-cheat system", and there will never be. It could only be made harder (cheating).
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I think one reason of the reasonable amount of people being called heaters is that with 1.1 a whole new base of Players came with it, some with no further knowledge of the game than MOUSE1 = ATTACK, and when they found one player that stands out from the rest they call him a cheater, reporting him, even blacklisting them from several servers, I happen to me quite a few times now, and I'm nowhere near a great player.
Maybe we just need to focus more in the fun and less in the competitive side of the game after all it's just a game.
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Just to note... no one never said it would be a perfect anti-cheat system.
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(13 Apr 11, 05:58AM)Joe Smith Wrote: If there's one thing I know for sure, it's this: there is no "100% anti-cheat system", and there will never be. It could only be made harder (cheating).
Did you really just edit my entire post ? I cant believe it, i may not take the time to have perfect grammar of perfect sentence structure, But i do not appreciate you "tempest" editing my entire post.
Now my opinion on the topic will never be shared, whether people wanted to know it or not. I didnt bash anyone or use harsh language etc. So i do not see the need for you to have edited my post in any way at all.
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13 Apr 11, 04:58PM
(This post was last modified: 13 Apr 11, 11:33PM by Gibstick.)
Ooooh shit, sorry. Now THAT was why MY post didn't show up. Sorry, goddamit.
Of course, feel free to put back whatever was there. Sorry again.
mod edit: Don't worry, I used to do that all the time. If you consider how much I post, I was really lucky.
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you guys seems to talk about things i don't see in game.
in 2 years i play AC i saw less then 5 or 6 players (well, 3 of them are currently playing in strong clans), that were or are cheaters. i mean the ones who are not SO visible.
well, 6 players in 2 years are not so much, when i.e. warrock counts dozens of bans everyday
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13 Apr 11, 10:22PM
(This post was last modified: 13 Apr 11, 10:29PM by Jason.)
(12 Apr 11, 07:09PM)tempest Wrote: Was Davitomon not skilled? I was thinking of him in particular.
The man was a professional gamer outside of AC with sponsorships, so I'd guess so.
(13 Apr 11, 05:12PM)YourSister Wrote: you guys seems to talk about things i don't see in game.
in 2 years i play AC i saw less then 5 or 6 players (well, 3 of them are currently playing in strong clans), that were or are cheaters. i mean the ones who are not SO visible.
well, 6 players in 2 years are not so much, when i.e. warrock counts dozens of bans everyday
This game is tiny/minute. That is why.
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(13 Apr 11, 04:58PM)tempest Wrote: Ooooh shit, sorry. Now THAT was why MY post didn't show up. Sorry, goddamit.
Of course, feel free to put back whatever was there. Sorry again.
Its ok, i see that you posted the same thing, that you accidentally edited on my post.
I cant repost what i had said, cuz i dont remember all of what i had typed. It was one of those Bam! its on my mind and i post. lol
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