Would you torture a terrorist to save 1,000 lives?

[YesWeCamp]

I would torture one terrorist to save a thousand random people.
I would kill 999 terrorists to save 1000 random people.
I would not torture a person unless they are a proven terrorist and the information they hold would save a life or many lives that are in immediate danger.

Generally, I'd put torture at the bottom of the list and only to be used as a last resort.

Agreed. Terrorism is always against random people at random events. Thats why terrorism is a very dangerous and unpredictable form of violence. This is why it should be avoided at all costs. I would even call for wiping out any fundamentalistic person/group that would be able of being a threat to national security. Democracy and freedom are helped more with an oppression of oppressive ideology's. Sounds contradictive, but its in my idea the only way to secure forementioned democracy and freedom.

[Marti]

yes because otherwise i'd die too cuz im in or near the building

[[SODA]___ME___]

In the United States, smoking is responsible for about one in five deaths annually (i.e., about 443,000 deaths per year, and an estimated 49,000 of these smoking-related deaths are the result of secondhand smoke exposure).

In 2010, there were an estimated 5,419,000 motor vehicle crashes in the United States, killing 32,885 and injuring 2,239,000

That is 466885 deaths per year for just those 2 factors, does 467885 sound much worse? Out of the 7,000,000,000 people does this (or the smokers/bad drivers) even make a difference?

How many of the 1000 are smokers, bad drivers, alcoholics, drug addicts, abusive, mentally unstable, or just plain rude? Just what are you saving in the end? How will this look to the rest of the world if you chose yes or if you chose no?

I need more time to think about it before I decide.

[Andrez]

^
totally off-topic, it doesn't even go close to the topic. If you want to talk about other kind of terrorists, just talk about Americans who cry for a bomb in Boston while they spread their hundred bombs daily upon thousands of innocent people, JUST FOR THE FUCKING PETROL.

#nohatejusttruth

[Money$hot]

I think the CIA should employ Nut-Boarding. Terrorists will divulge whatever info you want in order to keep tasting my nuts.

[MathiasB]

Torture people, and invade a country... The American style.
Do nothing, do nothing... The European style.

Truth is as always somewhere between them.
But I'm surely against torturing people. No matter for what reason.

Our forefathers haven't fight for nothing. 'Les Droits de l'Homme', signed in the French Revolution isn't just a piece of paper. People died for all these basic rights!

[ElCrema]

Normally I would agree with you, but if you read the scenario again, it says "A bomb is planted and set to go off shortly. You have captured the terrorist who can disarm the bomb", you'll notice that you don't really have the time to do anything but torture the terrorist if you wish to survive. Not unless you can convince the terrorist to disable the bomb willingly, but I'm assuming you would have already tried this before planning to use any method of coercion.

The scenario or circunstances will ALWAYS be irrelevant, no exceptions should ever be made when it comes to someone's right to due process. I don't care who you are or what you've done I will never go against your civil rights because in the future, someone could just might as well come against mine, using some other type of rigtheous argument. Trust me mate, us who lived under a dictatorial regime in some point in our lives don't take these kinda things for granted!

[MathiasB]

I don't care who you are or what you've done I will never go against your civil rights because in the future, someone could just might as well come against mine, using some other type of rigtheous argument.

Exactly!

[Roflcopter]

I guess in some sense my argument for not torturing is not great. It really revolves around how demeaning it is to both parties such that'd I'd rather maintain my honor and die. I am just not happy inflicting pain to someone who is defenceless.

[Andrez]

The scenario or circunstances will ALWAYS be irrelevant, no exceptions should ever be made when it comes to someone's right to due process. I don't care who you are or what you've done I will never go against your civil rights [...]

Not really, circumstances count in some cases. What if, for example, a bomb is going to destroy the building where your brother or mother is trapped?
In that case only the Code of Hammurabi is needed: if you're going to kill my parents, be sure you won't last another day.

[ExodusS]

Torture people, and invade a country... The American style.
Do nothing, do nothing... The European style.

Actually European government is going in USA way by invading countries with false public accusations.
If you check what's happening in Libia and Syria, those "democratic ways" are bullshit.
And I prefer when EU was doing nothing, at least they were not making craps.

[Bukz]

I can save 1,000 innocent lives by ruining 1; specifically the one that intended on taking those lives to begin with?

All laws/morality aside, I'd take those odds.

[Oracle]

Torturing religious terrorist is useless. They are ready to die as martyrs. What Waffles said, I would use the time to defuse the bomb or something.

But I think what Rofl meant in the question was that the terrorist was the only one who could diffuse the bomb.

At least that's what I construed it as.

[Roflcopter]

Yeah, I make a probably not true assertion that you have only those two choices.

[#M|A#Wolf]

The scenario or circumstances will ALWAYS be irrelevant, no exceptions should ever be made when it comes to someone's right to due process.

In my opinion circumstances are always relevant. I have my doubts that say your family and friends were kidnapped and placed in a hidden basement somewhere with a timer bomb, and you had the chance to torture the person that did it for information, you would hesitate from doing so because you wouldn't want to defile his civil/human rights. It's just an example but really I think that circumstances are everything in these types of situations. I doubt that most governments would reject the idea of torturing a terrorist for information when it came down to a severe case of national security. Many laws around the world exist to prevent torture but in reality it's happened countless of the times under the radar.

[Roflcopter]

The scenario or circumstances will ALWAYS be irrelevant, no exceptions should ever be made when it comes to someone's right to due process.

In my opinion circumstances are always relevant. I have my doubts that say your family and friends were kidnapped and placed in a hidden basement somewhere with a timer bomb, and you had the chance to torture the person that did it for information, you would hesitate from doing so because you wouldn't want to defile his civil/human rights. It's just an example but really I think that circumstances are everything in these types of situations.

That argument is an appeal to emotion really. One would be motivated by feelings not informed by reason.

[ElCrema]

The scenario or circumstances will ALWAYS be irrelevant, no exceptions should ever be made when it comes to someone's right to due process.

In my opinion circumstances are always relevant. I have my doubts that say your family and friends were kidnapped and placed in a hidden basement somewhere with a timer bomb, and you had the chance to torture the person that did it for information, you would hesitate from doing so because you wouldn't want to defile his civil/human rights. It's just an example but really I think that circumstances are everything in these types of situations.

That argument is an appeal to emotion really. One would be motivated by feelings not informed by reason.

There you have it. Due process is a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, it is VERY precious. It exists just so one persons feelings or needs won't matter more than other persons rights. We as a society should ALWAYS be vigilant to keep this intact. My family and lives of my loved ones are importatnt to me, but in the bigger picture they sure are not more important than someone elses civil liberties. People just don't realise how thin is the line betwen democracy and oppresion. It vis very dangerous to go down the road the pool here suggests.

The poll says: "A bomb is planted and set to go off shortly. You have captured the terrorist who can disarm the bomb" and here for me is where the whole problem lies. You CAN NOT NEVER know for sure that that one guy is the one who did it if don't give him the right to deffend himself in a court of law. That is the fundamental flaw here, even in a hypothetical situation like this is never too much to stress the fact that everyone is innocent until proving guilt on court run by his peers. If you ever loose sight of this little fact you might as well just run for hills, caus things might get uggly fast...

[Nightmare]

Let's ask Boston's people what they want done to this guy they just caught.

[ElCrema]

The only thing they know about this guy they just caught is what TV channels said so...
I worked in the Boston Metropolitan area till last year, Nightmare, I've been on the Boston Marathonn several times before, my wife and I lived in the Back Bay area for 4 years, just a few blocks away from that whole mess. Believe me when I say: this thing hit me VERY close to home and like everyone else around here I found it sad and horrible but, yet any of this matters more to me and the civil rights that lots of people didn't have just a few decades ago...

[Bukz]

The only thing they know about this guy they just caught is what TV channels said so...

All of my wat.

You're not referring to the US federal authorities are you?

If that was the case they'd prolly still be hunting for Sunil Tripathi. Mass media did an absolutely horrible job of covering the boston marathon bombings and the subsequent investigation/manhunt. There were multiple misidentified suspects.

[Nightmare]

This guy they have captured deserves to be tied to a streetlight pole in Boston, and stoned.

[Bukz]

Death is the easy way out for him at this point. He deserves a life sentence @ guantanamo.

[Aekom]

The scenario or circunstances will ALWAYS be irrelevant, no exceptions should ever be made when it comes to someone's right to due process. I don't care who you are or what you've done I will never go against your civil rights because in the future, someone could just might as well come against mine, using some other type of rigtheous argument.

I don't think you understand my argument. This scenario states that you know the terrorist is capable of disabling the bomb, but is unwilling to. Now, you're in a room/building with another 1000 people and the terrorist, with a bomb sitting on the table, ticking away. Are you seriously going to sit there and go "civil rights blah blah" in that situation? Be real, you're going to do anything to survive, otherwise you become human juice with the rest of the hostages.

Trust me mate, us who lived under a dictatorial regime in some point in our lives don't take these kinda things for granted!

I don't take things for granted at all. My people were gassed and buried alive during Saddam Hussein's regime. I know what's up, don't worry.


tl;dr It's all just a matter of survival, due process is no longer a factor when you're minutes away from certain death.

[MathiasB]

This guy they have captured deserves to be tied to a streetlight pole in Boston, and stoned.

Wrong, no one deserves to die...

Death is the easy way out for him at this point. He deserves a life sentence @ guantanamo.

Wrong, no one deserves to tortured for the rest of his life...

I heard on the (European) radio that he is seen as a terrorist, and so they have taken his civil rights. Which means he won't get a lawyer and a real process.

[Nightmare]

Lets feed him ice cream instead.

[#M|A#Wolf]

Wrong, no one deserves to die...

Wrong, no one deserves to tortured for the rest of his life...

Then what do you suggest? And btw, going to guantanamo ≠ torture for the rest of your life.

[MathiasB]

And btw, going to guantanamo ≠ torture for the rest of your life.

"for the rest of your life" was maybe exaggerated.
But I wouldn't want to spend a day in Guantanamo. And surely not decade(s). (and yes, that surely happens, check the internet)

---

Lets feed him ice cream instead.

No need to do that... :)

[Mystered]

theoretically I would to save lives, however if it was real I don't know if me or any of you guys would be psychologically strong enough to really torture the terrorist, whoever he is.

[Marti]

I think death is also a bad punishment, e.g the boston guy that isnt dead yet should not die but he should have his limbs ripped off too like some of the victims and this will let him be disabled for the rest of his life which is worse than the quick escape of death. Kind of like what they do in Saudi Arabia like once one victim was paralyzed for life, and then they paralyzed the criminal for the rest of his life too. Imo worse than death because he is still alive and his mind is working but he can't move so his life is useless. I think you suffer a lot more this way.

[Vanquish]

Mean Marti is mean.