And another...

[Oracle]

Today, America has hit a new low.



Discuss...

[Nightmare]

One psycho doesn't represent 300+ million but yeah the guy is nuts.

Also found out that there have been more murders on my street this year than aerkefiende's city in the last 20 years.
ban gunssss.

[Andrez]

Indeed, but the fact that these kind of shootings often happen in USA..... It's a thing to think about...

[pkkiller]

the guns are for protection guys lol.

[Jg99]

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

[#M|A#Wolf]

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

Jg99 for US Senate

[Orynge]

Let's just model all our countries on Norfolk Island. There have two murders there in the last 110 years, and most people don't even lock their doors (as of a decade ago).

---

[Misty]

Homocide in São Paulo has grown 114% this year. You don't see me making threads. Nut up.


Kidding. Does anyone know why the guy did it?

[Orynge]

Apparently he's "a bit" autistic or something.

[MykeGregory]

It makes you think how crazy you would have to be to shoot one person nevermind loads.
Think about it, you would be standing there with a gun, about to end someones life. its scary..

[Ronald_Reagan]

As if I didn't think it could get worse. Getting hit with knowledge of this happening in my home state, and then within the same week learning about much worse situation is horrible. Having it happen in my state hits home. Hearing from friends who were in that mall an hour beforehand just makes it worse.
Not sure how many here saw this http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/12/justice/or...index.html

And now this. I cannot fathom how hard this hit the parents. The school is supposed to be a safe place, where both parents and children are supposed to feel safe from the world. But now it wont feel that way.

---

the guns are for protection guys lol.

Yeah, I don't see many 7 year olds packing heat. Especially in school. Where I'm from its illegal to bring any sort of weapon, let alone gun, into a school or similar institution.

When you need use something to protect against itself, something is amiss.

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

All of these shootings haven't been made by criminals, they were made by people who came out of the blue.
I'd suggest thinking a little more beforehand when you use the term "common sense" ("obvious" is another one to look out for, and I find myself overusing it), its might not be "common sense" to everyone. And in some cases it just makes you look flat out ignorant and pompous.

If you look at the picture Ory posted, you will notice that guns do raise crime. Yes, if someone really wants a gun, they could get it.

Preventing access to some firearms may not fix the problem entirely, but at least it makes it better.

The point is that a hunting rifle is for hunting, and a pistol or machine gun isn't. The difference between the purposes of the weapons is big enough to cause a noticeable difference in the psyche of someone. This is my own speculation.

[Habluka]

Good thing I'm a university student on the other side of the country. It would have sucked to have been an elementary schooler in that school in CT.

[Edward]

the guns are for protection guys lol.

helmets are for protection, not guns ...

[Nightmare]

If we take out the Republicans, all guns will be banned except for single shot hunting rifles that look like AC's carbine, and suck as much as AC's carbine so crazies will only get one shot off before getting jumped.
Make it happen.

[Orynge]

The C&H comic for the 7th of December.

[Fate]

I genuinely chuckled at that pic. Thanks for sharing Ory. :D

[VallDiGna]

And another good example: SMOKING KILLS!

[MerCyKiL]

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

banning guns would make it harder and more expensive for criminals to obtain them...

common sense

[Hellspell]

Apparently he's "a bit" autistic or something.

Thing is I've got two friends that I know who and I'm more likely to murder someone than them. I think people are always quick to raise this as an explanation for anything nowadays, not that that's what you're doing, because I've seen that has been something the media have been reporting.

[Boomhauer]

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

banning guns would make it harder and more expensive for criminals to obtain them...

common sense

Yes, it will make it harder for criminals to obtain them. But it would make it impossible for upstanding citizens to buy them legally.
This would leave good people unable to protect themselves.
Therefore the criminals would still have guns, good citizens wouldn't
It is not possible to get rid of guns. I can download a pdf right now that will teach me to make one myself.
The best solution is tightening security at schools. No one should be able to simply walk into a school like he did. Sad that it's necessary but it is.
Teachers have to pass more stringent background checks to be a teacher than to get a pistol permit. There should be a thumbprint lock-box safe at least in the office (if not in every room) with loaded firearms available for the teachers to defend themselves and their students. It worked for the airlines... I haven't noticed any plane hi-jackings lately, have you?

[Zarjio]

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

banning guns would make it harder and more expensive for criminals to obtain them...

common sense

Yes, it will make it harder for criminals to obtain them. But it would make it impossible for upstanding citizens to buy them legally.
This would leave good people unable to protect themselves.

Protect themselves from who? When was the last time you heard of "ordinary citizens" getting shot at by gang members? Gang members are busy shooting other gang members. And when people do get caught in the crossfire, it's in places like clubs and malls - public places. Do we want people walking around in the mall with a loaded hunting rifle on their back?

It's the "ordinary citizens" who are committing these massacres. Organized crime didn't walk into an elementary school and kill 20 kids. The mafia didn't order two high school students to shoot up Columbine. It's the average, slightly-unstable guy in the neighborhood, who could easily and legally obtain weapons he had absolutely no need for, who committed these crimes.

[Nightmare]

I like how the media shows the craziest looking picture of the killers that they can find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook...erpetrator
Apparently he played starcraft & warcraft 3, and it's all their fault.

[MerCyKiL]

dont ban guns, criminals still will have them...

common sense

banning guns would make it harder and more expensive for criminals to obtain them...

common sense

Yes, it will make it harder for criminals to obtain them. But it would make it impossible for upstanding citizens to buy them legally.
This would leave good people unable to protect themselves.
Therefore the criminals would still have guns, good citizens wouldn't
It is not possible to get rid of guns. I can download a pdf right now that will teach me to make one myself.
The best solution is tightening security at schools. No one should be able to simply walk into a school like he did. Sad that it's necessary but it is.
Teachers have to pass more stringent background checks to be a teacher than to get a pistol permit. There should be a thumbprint lock-box safe at least in the office (if not in every room) with loaded firearms available for the teachers to defend themselves and their students. It worked for the airlines... I haven't noticed any plane hi-jackings lately, have you?

nice point but i think we lie at opposite ends of the politically spectrum on this issue.

i believe that all citizens should be prohibited from owning any firearm of any type. yes, you will have those who still illegally obtain weaponry but that number of people would be far fewer than it is today.

take a look at this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

after the Dunblane school shootings in 1996, the United Kingdom placed a ban on all cartridge ammunition handguns (law is not in effect in Northern Ireland). since then there have been no more school shootings in the UK.

the US is the most heavily-armed nation in the world. and as a result, we have more firearm-related homicides per capita than any other developed nation (we are excluding countries with turbulent societies, such as Honduras and Venezuela). how are we going to solve this problem by adding more weapons? that's like saying "oh look, that house is on fire. let's go pour some gasoline on it and see if it goes out".

---

...

a great point too

[Boomhauer]

Yes, it will make it harder for criminals to obtain them. But it would make it impossible for upstanding citizens to buy them legally.
This would leave good people unable to protect themselves.

Protect themselves from who? When was the last time you heard of "ordinary citizens" getting shot at by gang members? Gang members are busy shooting other gang members. And when people do get caught in the crossfire, it's in places like clubs and malls - public places. Do we want people walking around in the mall with a loaded hunting rifle on their back?

It's the "ordinary citizens" who are committing these massacres. Organized crime didn't walk into an elementary school and kill 20 kids. The mafia didn't order two high school students to shoot up Columbine. It's the average, slightly-unstable guy in the neighborhood, who could easily and legally obtain weapons he had absolutely no need for, who committed these crimes.

Via WIKI about this guy's mom:
"Nancy was a survivalist, who had turned her home into "a fortress" in which she was stockpiling guns and food to prepare for a possible apocalyptic event associated with some possible future collapse of the economy".

Stockpiling guns/ammunition = not ordinary

Buying a couple of guns to keep in the house "just in case" = ordinary

ALSO* I was talking about the teachers having means to defend themselves and their students.
Who can prevent a psycho from flipping out and trying to kill a bunch of people.. even kids in this case? NO ONE.
Who can prevent a psycho from flipping out and actually killing a bunch of kids?
Well, just ONE armed teacher may have saved some of them, even if only one life was saved, it would have been worth it for one of them to be armed.
All retrospect.
Most school systems would have never considered arming teachers until now. But I bet they will start (considering it).
I know that I consider myself a responsible "ordinary" citizen.
I just happen to be Ex-military and armed to the teeth.
I also happen to live right across the street from an Elementary School, which my step-son, and soon my own son will attend.
Would I, as an ordinary citizen even consider doing something like this? No, absolutely not. After I left from overseas I find it hard to even kill bugs if they get in my house, I usually capture them and throw them outside.
Would I defend those kids against something like this if (God Forbid) something like this happens across the street at that school, and I am able? You better fucking believe it. And I would hope that there are plenty of others out there that feel the same.
I understand your argument, but it's invalid. There is no way to rid the country of guns.
Attempting to do so would result in Civil unrest, or even war.
I can go 3 miles from my home and buy a fully automatic assault rifle for $300 right now.
That means anyone else can do the same.
The best defense is a good offense. And pointing your finger at someone and telling them "No No, you bad man, you shouldn't have a gun!" Isn't a good offense.

It's not like it took bravery to kill his mother and a bunch of little kids (God rest their little souls).
If those teachers were armed, or otherwise protected from something like this happening, and he knew it, He may have just stayed home and killed himself without all of this horrific, senseless mass-murder of innocent kids.

EDIT** and I hate that I have to say this like I am:
BTW MerCyKiL: The UK does have the strongest gun-control laws that I know of, but the U.S. is a different culture, with corrupt and failing law enforcement. The lack of guns isn't the reason there is less violence in the U.K. It's the simple fact that the police forces are not screened well enough in the U.S, and concentrate their efforts on the wrong things. TBH, the U.K. as a whole are just better people, who glorify gang violence and selling hard drugs a LOT less. Whether this is because they are just psychologically less prone to such things, or their police force is superior, it's fact.
Hey, my heritage is Norwegian and English so I can admit this. :-P

[Zarjio]

For the record, I'm not suggesting all guns be banned. Rifles and shotguns have legitimate uses. Plus, it's pretty darned hard to kill someone with .22 or anything smaller.

Stockpiling guns/ammunition = not ordinary

Buying a couple of guns to keep in the house "just in case" = ordinary

True enough. That was sorta my point in putting "ordinary citizens" in quotes and saying, "average, slightly-unstable guy". If there were more strict controls on guns (civilians not being allowed to own fully automatics, controls on how many weapons you buy, etc), then maybe this tragedy could have been prevented. At some point, some government agency should have said, "Hey, this woman is turning her house into a fortress. Let's take her guns away."

ALSO* I was talking about the teachers having means to defend themselves and their students.
Who can prevent a psycho from flipping out and trying to kill a bunch of people.. even kids in this case? NO ONE.
Who can prevent a psycho from flipping out and actually killing a bunch of kids?

The problem is, who knows if one of the teachers is unstable, and goes off one day and kills all the kids? What if one of the kids gets a hold of a teacher's gun (it will happen eventually, it's a big country, and some people aren't careful enough)? If you have an environment where there are weapons everywhere, people will use those weapons.

The best defense is a good offense.

Again, weapons everywhere = people use those weapons. People get mad and flip out all the time. Guys get into brawls in parking lots and fight outside clubs (not frequently, but often enough). What would happen if everyone was armed? Instead of two bozos going to the hospital with broken knuckles and noses, you would have two dead guys going to the morgue.

[Boomhauer]

For the record, I'm not suggesting all guns be banned. Rifles and shotguns have legitimate uses. Plus, it's pretty darned hard to kill someone with .22 or anything smaller.

***My Ex-brother-in-law killed both of his parents with a .22, choosing it over several other weapons in the house, and stated that he did so because "it is quieter"

Stockpiling guns/ammunition = not ordinary

Buying a couple of guns to keep in the house "just in case" = ordinary

True enough. That was sorta my point in putting "ordinary citizens" in quotes and saying, "average, slightly-unstable guy". If there were more strict controls on guns (civilians not being allowed to own fully automatics, controls on how many weapons you buy, etc), then maybe this tragedy could have been prevented. At some point, some government agency should have said, "Hey, this woman is turning her house into a fortress. Let's take her guns away."

Civilians aren't allowed to buy fully automatics.
Also, it doesn't matter how many guns you have. You can only use 1 or 2 at a time anyway ;-) There are such things as collectors. My father for instance, collects firearms. He has at least 50 different guns. But he isn't stockpiling for the end of the world, he's a collector. The government taking her guns away would be violating her right to bear arms. You were missing my point. I was simply bringing up an obviously odd bit of information about the mother that may speak to potential mental health issues within the family. But she was killed too.

The problem is, who knows if one of the teachers is unstable, and goes off one day and kills all the kids? What if one of the kids gets a hold of a teacher's gun (it will happen eventually, it's a big country, and some people aren't careful enough)? If you have an environment where there are weapons everywhere, people will use those weapons.

You don't know if the teachers are unstable, but they are put through quite a gauntlet of tests and checks before being employed as a teacher. By your logic, we shouldn't give cops or military guns either, cause who knows, maybe they are unstable?

The best defense is a good offense.

Again, weapons everywhere = people use those weapons. People get mad and flip out all the time. Guys get into brawls in parking lots and fight outside clubs (not frequently, but often enough). What would happen if everyone was armed? Instead of two bozos going to the hospital with broken knuckles and noses, you would have two dead guys going to the morgue.

True, but I'm not suggesting handing out guns as door prizes. Gun control is still necessary. Likely, if they are the type of people out brawling at a club, they probably didn't pass a background check to get a firearm. Though they may have one they obtained illegally. And in that case, my suggestion still has merit, because maybe the owner of the club IS a responsible citizen legally owning a firearm, and prevents the thugs from harming others.

BTW* It's much easier to obtain a firearm in Canada, where you are, than in the U.S. , and the murder rates and crime are VERY low there. That's because potential criminals who never know who's packing heat, are much less likely to attempt a crime.

[Zarjio]

BTW* It's much easier to obtain a firearm in Canada, where you are, than in the U.S. , and the murder rates and crime are VERY low there. That's because potential criminals who never know who's packing heat, are much less likely to attempt a crime.

No, it's not easier to obtain a firearm in Canada. You need a license to buy a gun, period. In most US states you don't need any license at all: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in...y_state%29). The only thing that is "easier" is once you have the license, you don't need to wait to buy a gun, you can just get one immediately.

For the bit about the crime rates: there could be various reasons for it, but I think a big factor is the fact that there are many, many more guns in the US, and more handguns in particular: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/res-rec/comp-eng.htm

And no, potential criminals aren't deterred because they never know who is packing heat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_...f_firearms. Basically, only people working for armored car companies can legally carry a concealed firearm in Canada. Even to move your handgun you need permission, and then you'll only be allowed to take it to the range and back home, no stopping on the way.

[MerCyKiL]

mmk so im said my stuff...im gonna slowly back away and come back when shit quiets down lol

[Boomhauer]

I forgot you are always right...

[Zarjio]

Not trying to start a flamewar here Boom, I'm just providing counter-arguments to your points.

Btw, still think that picture is excellent.