Tag evasion ban, are you serious?

[castiel]

Today I found out that some players have been banned for "tag evasion". It is getting to the point that it is just stupid, I can understand racism, abuse, swearing, but simply wanting to play on a server where you clan may have an(unfair) nickname blacklist.

I have never heard of getting blacklist for "tag evasion". Hacking, cheating, are LEGITIMATE reasons for getting blacklisted. Evading a tag ban is not, at least without proper(probably more than 1) warning.

If admins want to implement stupid blacklist reasons, could you maybe tell us first? As I was unaware that evading a tag ban was as offensive as using a hacked client...

A handful of clans are blacklisted for "hosting" cheaters, if this is going to happen, would it be possible for 100% reliable evidence to be provided to the clans so that they may deal with the cheaters? Cause with the insufficient crap provided, I see no reason that clan leaders should kick decent players simply for "possibly cheating".

Anyways this is just stupid, I hope you're proud for removing many talented players from the game for no real reason.

[Mael]

Agreed. If you don't want someone playing on your server, use an ip blacklist. If you want to protect tags use a nicklist. The only reason to block players from using a nick or tag is if that nick or tag[Not necessarily the person's behavior] causes trouble.

There are servers that have my nick blocked so I just change the |'s to I's because if you don't have the balls to come out and blacklist me properly I'm not going to abide by whatever half-assed rules you decide to make.

[Xenon]

Well I got IP banned for tag evasion, it is such a lame thing to do :)


Reason: Wearing the legacy. tag but changing it to something like legacy~,

[jamz]

Mael, you seem to accept that it's sometimes OK to ban a tag:

The only reason to block players from using a...tag is if [it] causes trouble.

...then advocate bypassing this ban. Which is it?
If I don't want a clan represented on my servers, for whatever reason, is that my prerogative or not? If a player bypasses my wishes repeatedly, is this not a reason to IP blacklist?
I know of a specific case that may have caused this, and the player in question was told that his clan-tag wasn't welcome, but insisted on bypassing that wish and goading the admin who was trying to enforce it. It was this poor behaviour that resulted in the IP ban.

[Xenon]

It was thispoor behaviour that resulted in the IP ban.

That is such a lame thing to say. It's just like seeing someone innocent calling themselves legacy and you blacklisting them. GG and please warn me about it next time, I just want to represent our clan just like all the "clean" clans do.

Also if this happens to me what about all the other clans that do it, not naming names but people having a name like {KH} or oNe_ which were people in the same server as me at the same time......

[castiel]

Mael, you seem to accept that it's sometimes OK to ban a tag:

The only reason to block players from using a...tag is if [it] causes trouble.

...then advocate bypassing this ban. Which is it?
If I don't want a clan represented on my servers, for whatever reason, is that my prerogative or not? If a player bypasses my wishes repeatedly, is this not a reason to IP blacklist?
I know of a specific case that may have caused this, and the player in question was told that his clan-tag wasn't welcome, but insisted on bypassing that wish and goading the admin who was trying to enforce it. It was this poor behaviour that resulted in the IP ban.

So you warned the blacklisted players repeatedly?

[Xenon]

The ALIASED admin did not warn me once. Please notify me and I would of taken it off!

[Mael]

I accept that it's ok to ban an offensive tag or name if that tag is causing trouble. A clan named HITLER| doesn't belong here.

I won't advocate blocking a clan tag unless the clan causes trouble. The way it works in my mind is:

If thing causes trouble, block thing.

If an offensive tag causes trouble, block the offensive tag.
If an offensive player causes trouble, block the offensive player.

I know of no official clan tag that causes trouble. If someone goes through adding a tag to their nicklist they must be aware that they are not preventing representation as long as those players are allowed on their server. Even if a player removes their tag their name is still displayed. If I play without my tag on everyone still knows who I am.

When people put me on their nicklist they do it because they know they don't have a legitimate reason to blacklist me. This is the best they can do and get away by the hair on their ass.

[jamz]

So you warned the blacklisted players repeatedly?

It was hypothetical. I wasn't directly involved with this incident.

The ALIASED admin did not warn me once. Please notify me and I would of taken it off!

As I say, I wasn't involved. I was going by the blacklist entry:

[SELECT ALL] Code:

'legacy.Xenon' matches nickname blacklist line 167
legacy~Xenon logged in (default)
'legacy~Xenon' matches nickname blacklist line 172
legacy@Xenon logged in (default)
legacy@Xenon says: 'I BAN CANT KEEP ME DOWN

I was assuming your tag changes, and your statement, implied that you knew the reason you were being kicked/banned from the server.

When people put me on their nicklist they do it because they know they don't have a legitimate reason to blacklist me.

This is the crucial part. The tag ban is not directed at the individual players, but at the clan as a whole. It's saying, "I welcome you as a player, but I feel your clan has made questionable decisions/doesn't play fair/is a bunch of douchebags/tag spells an offensive word in Swahili/whatever". I can't blame any player for feeling a strong affinity to their clan and wanting to apply their tag at all times; I once did. But that's not the issue. My question was about players bypassing this ban by altering the tag, which was, as far as I can see, the reason for the IP ban in Xenon's case. By saying it's OK to change your tag to evade a tag ban you are effectively saying that it's OK to change your IP address to evade an IP ban. A ban is a ban, regardless of how it's effected.

[castiel]

As I say, I wasn't involved. I was going by the blacklist entry:

[SELECT ALL] Code:

'legacy.Xenon' matches nickname blacklist line 167
legacy~Xenon logged in (default)
'legacy~Xenon' matches nickname blacklist line 172
legacy@Xenon logged in (default)
legacy@Xenon says: 'I BAN CANT KEEP ME DOWN

.

Definitely stupid from xenon, but I think a warning would serve much more useful in cases such as these. Players now know it is a blacklistable offence so they won't do it. While I may not agree with your views on tag blacklisting, they are your servers to do as you please so I can accept that. But I do detest not giving sufficient warning before an ip blacklist is handed out.

[jamz]

...they are your servers...

Just in case there's any confusion, this didn't happen on my server, but on an NZ server. The ban was put in place by an NZ admin who RandumKiwi trusts to apply bans he might want on his servers. The final say on this particular ban is his.
I got involved because I knew some details of the incident, and feel the same way about the tag ban in question.

[Mael]

By saying it's OK to change your tag to evade a tag ban you are effectively saying that it's OK to change your IP address to evade an IP ban. A ban is a ban, regardless of how it's effected.

Frankly, if I was banned for cheating and I know I didn't cheat that's exactly what I would do. Change my ip and keep right on playing.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Some people seem to be over-zelous with tag bans. Listening to MK's rages, I caught on that KH is tagbanned for a stupid think he did. Not what his clan did. This is where you use an ip ban or just a "block KH|MorganKell". However, I do not know the details of this incident or the legacy one.
(if you reply to this post, reply to the idea I provided, not the example)

[Bullpup]

What will you do with a range ban Grandmaster Melle Mel?
Is it not up to Brahma to first run you thru the analyzer and have you labbed, then other minions to vote in TS servers or some junk?
This seems like nickname ban & ban evasion coated in a candy shell called "and I know I didn't cheat"

now feel free to rebut your own statements, or just do the normal thing for Board Mods round here.

[V-Man]

Someone call Bullpup's proctologist to retrieve that evergreen.

Thankful people: Bukz

[Mael]

What will you do with a range ban Grandmaster Melle Mel?
Is it not up to Brahma to first run you thru the analyzer and have you labbed, then other minions to vote in TS servers or some junk?
This seems like nickname ban & ban evasion coated in a candy shell called "and I know I didn't cheat"

now feel free to rebut your own statements, or just do the normal thing for Board Mods round here.

hwat

[MykeGregory]

Another reason why being in a clan isnt always a good thing. I prefere to play solo.

[#M|A#Wolf]

In my opinion, if there is an issue with a player from a specific clan;whether it is hack accusations/allegations, bad history from the player, etc., that player should be the one banned, not the rest of his clan mates. If you want to ban a clan's tag because it has/accepted a cheater, then please first make sure you only do it with absolute and clear proof that that player actually cheats.

[castiel]

In my opinion, if there is an issue with a player from a specific clan;whether it is hack accusations/allegations, bad history from the player, etc., that player should be the one banned, not the rest of his clan mates. If you want to ban a clan's tag because it has/accepted a cheater, then please first make sure you only do it with absolute and clear proof that that player actually cheats.

Exactly, if 100% proof could be provided at least to the clan leaders or something. As I said, a clan leader shouldn't have to kick a perfectly nice player for "suspicion" of hacking. They should have reliable evidence so the player can be removed from said clan, if they continue to support hackers with sufficient evidence, then a tag ban seems much more fair.

[Xenon]

Don't instigate.

...

[#M|A#Wolf]

usesnipez: If we don't this injustice will just continue happening. In the long run, this is slowly making experienced players' interest become smaller (basically since they can't even play and are forced to stick to the ac_riflecamper12341!!!, thus quitting the game like many have done.

[Foo]

In my opinion, if there is an issue with a player from a specific clan;whether it is hack accusations/allegations, bad history from the player, etc., that player should be the one banned, not the rest of his clan mates. If you want to ban a clan's tag because it has/accepted a cheater, then please first make sure you only do it with absolute and clear proof that that player actually cheats.

let me run through a list here

Legacy accused of hacking:

Davitomon
Vault77
Sepehr

Legacy not accused of hacking:

Castiel
Larry
Jason
Foo
Vermi
yata
Xenon
Shorty(?)

In conclusion the tag ban is deserved only if you're a terrible server admin, and can't find the IP adresses, or ranges, of 3 players.

HOWEVER

If you truly want to tag ban us, we will keep on evading, keep on using our dynamic IP adresses, and keep on changing nicks.

[Gibstick]

Davitomon is an accused hacker?
Davitomon is was an accused hacker?.

[Bukz]

Cheater, if you wanna get technical about it. :P

[MorganKell]

Some people seem to be over-zealous with tag bans. Listening to MK's rages, I caught on that KH is tagbanned for a stupid think he did. Not what his clan did. This is where you use an ip ban or just a "block KH|MorganKell". However, I do not know the details of this incident or the legacy one.
(if you reply to this post, reply to the idea I provided, not the example)

Flattering me already? Awww... ty! xD. |KH| has been tag-banned before and is currently banned on stef's A&D servers. Speaking of which, anyone seen those lately? Didn't think so. The idea is one that goes back to the beginning of time. Share the punishment with all of offender's associates and watch how quick they turn on him. It's a method of enforcing a decision when there is no other alternative i.e. offender could give a puck. Love that swear dipped in cherry Mod Awesome V-Man FTW? Thought so.

The issue with |KH|'s recent tag-banning was due to our not doing enough of a background check on an old shimmy who appeared out of nowhere. He was solid stuff when he transferred from KFC, but somewhere inbetween something got Lost in Translation. IDK. We removed him due to simple problem of lying. If a cheater reforms and wants to play I'll give them a second chance AS long as they are up front about their past and who they are. That way when the tag-bans start falling I'll know which way to swing the awesomeness.

I don't however agree with banning an entire clan in order to punish one person. It's basically a form of blackmail. Use it as a tool to force other clan leaders into doing things your way, while hurting innocent players in the process? It's as shiesty a tool as I've ever seen, and believe me, I've seen that bitch more often then I'd care to remember.

What I do agree with is this. Say an entire clan of offensive whoremongering duetschbags spawned from the After Regions of Satan's Sauna and hellbent on being the biggest dickheads since Henry VIII decide to run amok. You tag-ban them accordingly with the requisite "FU dickhead" only to find mass logins to your servers under different, slightly changed, slightly skewed, triple smacked, wadilly wacked, uber slappy, god that's happy, mick my nine just in time Mr. Sublime, tags. In my opinion that calls for some epic Banhammer of Thor up in that bitch. You wanna step make sure you got game, but if you wanna play, learn the name.

As for this legacy thing. I don't really give a shit. Then again, accepting an ex-cheater such as Davi is going to do that to a shimmy. TyD and A&D were pretty tight back in the day. TyD built it's reputation on being the law enforcers of AC. To have one of their most trusted shimmies suddenly join the Dark Side is a bitter pill for them to swallow. You can't ask them to forget something like that can you? What do you do then? As for Vault and Sepehr... shit happens. |KH| defended Vault like a whiteboy and too have him accused of hacks AGAIN?? Yea that's all I'm going to say. Buy yourself a new G38475.328282 mouse and have some fun. You left and so did all the fucking aussies who say they killed |KH|. Word to the wise. YOU CAN NEVER KILL |KH|!! FU SON AND TAKE A SEAT.

MorganKell

[Xenon]

And people wonder why no good players play on public servers, THEY ARE ALL BANNED!

Wolf: I mean seriously, Xenon(Me) is banned from some servers just for the name, it just makes the game no fun.

Time to change my IP :)

EDIT: Also Sepehr and Vault77 have very MINIMAL proof of cheating so I seriously think that the people accusing them are SO LAME

[V-Man]

er...
Is there anyone not blacklisted from stef's servers?

[vonunov]

Share the punishment with all of offender's associates and watch how quick they turn on him.

I WILL PT YOU ALL UNTIL YOU F***ING DIE

[jAcKRoCk*]

er...
Is there anyone not blacklisted from stef's servers?

Me, i remember that Davitomon was reported as a cheater and as far as i consern he's no longer a respected player, as for the others such as Castiel and Xenon i know It's not your fault he cheated in the past, but he's in your clan so You have now to carry with His History, anyways hope You all can make this thing get it the past

[Foo]

er...
Is there anyone not blacklisted from stef's servers?

Me, i remember that Davitomon was reported as a cheater and as far as i consern he's no longer a respected player, as for the others such as Castiel and Xenon i know It's not your fault he cheated in the past, but he's in your clan so You have now to carry with His History, anyways hope You all can make this thing get it the past

for the record only 2 or 3 people of the 11 members of the clan wanted davitomon in the clan, but, yeah.