constructive thread

[seagal]

Hello,

This time i didnt come to complain but to give some feedback, and sorry everyone i harrased in the past. I tought id see how acs state is atm so i played a couple of days.
Think that are good in the new version:

+the new helmet armor things, makes the armor placement more balanced and equal.
+hitsounds.
+stronger ar.

Things that should be discussed like normal human beeing (ill do my best):

1. - i think the recoil on the ar and smg is way too much. This makes the game only suited for close combat. Duels from mid and far range are pointless, since the recoil has your crosshair against the roof. (i think) assault cube should be a fast paced quake like ctf game, but this random recoil just makes the gameplay worse. You cant improve much aim wise and there is not much too train like this. The only tactic left is to get close to your enemy. The game would be more intens if duels can be fought from all ranges with all weapons. This make the game more balanced and faster paced. The game isnt designed to shoot in bursts, and you shouldnt try to promote this. Its not counterstrike were you can kill with one headshot. You even could (and this probably sounds weird to some of you) give the sniper unzoomed a crosshair, so it becomes like a railgun, this wouldnt unbalance the ar, smg and sniper because you would still have to make a headshot too kill faster, which is quite hard with one shot.And to balance the ar and smg is too give the smg abit more recoil then the ar, but less then now is. And preferable linear recoil or only recoil when you get hit.

2. -the lag. It seems like it has gone worse, ofcourse this is by far the hardest thing to fix, but also the biggest problem.

3 only 1 nade at pickup. This takes away a big part of the gameplay. You should have just increased the spawntime abit. Nades was something to specialize in, but now its just gone.

4. Clanplay should be stimulated. Clans are the base of a fps without it players will get bored faster and quit the game faster. A 3on3 ladder would be great to stimulate this. (like the esl 1on1 ladder).

Now im not saying im right about all points, maybe nobody agree with me. But i think these things should be discussed. The biggest points is too have skills were you can excell in; like throwing nades, sniping, smg aim from far distance. Alot of these thing were taking away in this version; making the game simpler. And i dont think thats a good thing.

[makkE]

Let me get some terms straight first: "recoil" is the way the gun kicks your crosshair upwards. You are talking about bullet "spread".

The one thing that's crucial about less spread like you propose it, is that if you leave it out of the equation, you will only have damage and rof (rate of fire) to balance the two automatic weapons - wich will make them pretty much the same in the end, unless you change recoil dramatically. I am not too fond of recoil as a means of balancing, since it can be very easy to handle or very hard, depending on your sensitivity.

The AR is a long range weapon - use bursts. I don't see what's wrong with burst firing, the spread cools down very fast. Even the smg, with the improved accuracy on the first shots works for longer ranges now. Try ac_douze with SMG vs AR - if your aim is better, you will own with the smg too - as long as you burst 4-5 shots.

Besides, the AR was always designed for bursts at longer ranges - in 0.9 and 1.0, you could pretty much snipe around with 1-2 shot bursts - it just seems not many used it that way.

Oh, and: You say this isn't counterstrike, yet you propose more spread when hit - that's more like cs in my book than
some consistent spread alone.. being penalized for getting hit doesn't fit the AC philosophy - you should be able to perform properly even while getting shredded to pieces :P

Nades: I know there is controversy. So is with the sniper. You are right, these things should be discussed.

Lag: I hope we can fix this in the future.

Ladders: Unfortunately, most players rejected the ESL - though I have good memories of the cube esl ladders and cups, it seems most AC people didn't like the ESL.

I will open a discussion thread on 1.1.0.4 soon, were I want to discuss the changes that still have to be done to the weapon balance. I hope most people have gotten more fond of 1.1 now, with the nerfed armour values, so we can have a proper discussion.

[seagal]

No i mean the recoil, not the spread. Tracking (and firing) from far distance with smg is now impossible. Ok maybe your aim is to make people shoot in bursts. But ive never seen players do that in all the matches ive played in the previous version. Its more spot a player then unload your clip on him, who tracks the best wins. The spread is fine as it is. But the recoil just promotes to only encounter your opponent in close combat, so you can fire you whole clip and kill him in one streak (how it should be on far aswell).
I mean in counterstrike you can kill a player with 2 shots, so its ok too shoot in bursts. But in ac you need 8? (+armor) hits too kill, so thats 3 a 4 burts that all hit from far distance.

"Ladders: Unfortunately, most players rejected the ESL - though I have good memories of the cube esl ladders and cups, it seems most AC people didn't like the ESL."

Just a community hosted ladder would be the best. Maybe on the same site were the ladder would be on.

I think acs best potential is too be a quake like fast paced 3on3 ctf game (cause there is a gap, with now only realistic slow paced teambased fps like cs and cod, and quake like 1on1 duel games, but no team based quick fps), with as fun sides tosok and lss. There should be were the focus lies. Its better to have one real good mode, instead of added more modes that arent so good as ctf. And a general ladder like the old tyd is also vital (dunno if its still out there). And you should primarely listen to the best players, since they have mastered every tiny thing in your game too the highest level. And they can see every aspect of the game (just pure logic, not that you should listen too me).

[OpenSource]

1: Recoil is what it is and i can live with it as it is.
2: For me it looks like lag has become a bigger problem in 1.1 and i agree with you.
(and FPS has become some what of a problem)
3: Agree again. Lets pick up 2 nadas and increase spawn time for them.
4: Shit, i gotta be real bad at English cos i don't understand what you mean.

[seagal]

4 is that it should be promoted for players to form clans and play matches. Since the clans are roots of the game. They keep everything together and active. Notice now that alot clans are gone is forum activity is alot lower aswell.

[makkE]

Segal, I don't understand. Recoil has been lowered on both SMG and AR, and the SMG has become more accurate. The way you reason, tracking should have become more easy, not harder.

In the case of the SMG, the only diffrence is, that your first few shots must be more accurate - first aim, then shoot. I don't see how this affects tracking from a far distance.

[OpenSource]

Maybe thats a good thing.

I see all this "NOD"s and "A.D.A"s around but i never seen them here.
Some of them might wanna look this way to see whats its about.

A clan is not to be take lightly.
In-game this is your life, this is your friends and respected comrades.

Peoples making a "clan" cos they wanna belong, cos they are from the same countries doesn't feet for me.

I think a AC clan is for the dedicated.

I only speak for me but ill never leave my dear DES.
They gotta kick my ass out before im dropping the tag.

DES is my gaming life, my gaming soul, my gaming everything.

(And pls before someone starts: This is my gaming live and gaming position.
I will keep my cool and treat everyone a like as a moderator on AC forum.
AC forum = "work".
DES = fun, game and comrades.
As a working man i will do my job)

[seagal]

"Segal, I don't understand. Recoil has been lowered on both SMG and AR, and the SMG has become more accurate. The way you reason, tracking should have become more easy, not harder.

In the case of the SMG, the only diffrence is, that your first few shots must be more accurate - first aim, then shoot. I don't see how this affects tracking from a far distance. "

mm maybe its because i didnt play for more then a year. Still i think it should be possible to have a duel from far distance with the smg, which is now near impossible (if you dont shoot in bursts).

"I see all this "NOD"s and "A.D.A"s around but i never seen them here."

A better community website would be a big plus too. this is abit of an old fansioned forum:P

[Gibstick]

It shouldn't be possible to just simply hold down the mouse and aim to use the SMG. Aim lower, attack from a better angle, etc. Even though there are people who can click and aim to kill, it does take effort.

[xxkid123]

i personally think the SMG has way to much spread. the only tactic that works for me is to pin the guy against the wall and start shooting. almost impossible to miss. in the end a knife would be totally fine. when i face off someone with SMG they start shooting at me, except that most of the bullets go around me by a lot even though the gun is pointed directly towards me. but still i do like it that way since it is a compromise between large magazine, weak, fast and inacurate (SMG) or slower, less bullets, accurate, and stronger (AR).

anyone think the that shotgun is sorta to good for the other guns? like it's compromised by range and ROF, yet i still can get a few good frags even far away, and it's a one hit KO anyways.

i'm just a noob, so this might have been discussed before in different threads before, and maybe i'm the only one who has doesn't like it.

[seagal]

now ive played a while; indeed the recoil is not that bad -altough it could be just a bit less-. The spread in indeed worse, makes the duel more random which is not a good thing. It should be about skill not about luck.

[Gibstick]

If you have skill you can control it fine.

[seagal]

thanks for pointing that out. i still think its abit much to aim from far distance.

[Gibstick]

Maybe it is, was spread changed at all from 1.0.4? The reduced recoil of the first few shots makes it easier to burst fire, but the spread still kills me sometimes.

[Joe Smith]

The AR is pretty much pointless unless you practice it alot, maps are to close range and people move to fast to use the burst the right way, people can just cut corners and just make the AR worthless, Altho some people can kill with the AR and is used alot for rifle jumping.

it would be cool if you could make the AR kinda like the m16 make it have an auto 3 burst and have those 3 burst little stronger than normal. this sounds like mw2 i know but in mw2 its alot easier to kill people with the 3 bursts cuz people dont move as fast as AC. Since Ac moves quicker than mw2 just make the AR little stronger than normal, and have it lets say min 5 shot kill or 6 shot kill, this will be harder than mw2 since people move faster, and harder cuz the recoil, and armor is more than it is in mw2, so you could play around with the recoil and and min shot kill, with the burst ( if burst is even possible in AC ) ( auto burst) . ( i know with auto burst it takes away from the rifle jump but compromises are made sometimes.)

Just an idea, this idea is not supposed to make it like mw2, or anythign like an other fps, i know devs want to keep it liek they want and stay on the track of what AC is about. its just and idea, and it could be a good one if maybe tried it out. Or make a whole new gun :) ( i know alot of trouble).

about the nades, what about keep it one nade but increase the spawn time, so you get a nade use it and have to go back to the spot, instead of having 2 nades and can just spam them to protect your spaming area to get more nades. with one nade with increased spawn time is still harder to spam than with 2 nades, and most of the time people get nades and just continue on, so they would still get one nade instead of two.

just a question have had several people say the same thing, the flow and smoothness is worse in 1.1 than in 104 is there a reason for this.

just my thoughts[/align]

Joe

[Bullpup]

your thoughts are not aligned with your desires....
but it is a nice idea.

[Vermi]

"just a question have had several people say the same thing, the flow and smoothness is worse in 1.1 than in 104 is there a reason for this"

Yes, this has been said alot, personally playing the new version i feel like a spastic people are gliding through the air killing me in .1 of a second with the AR, seriously you have to be a god to kill an AR that has already begun firing at you, I know that the AR was designed for burst firing in later versions but people did not use it for that but if i play 1.0.4 the AR can seriously mess you up if the person using it knows how.in AC 1.0.4 i could progress through a map whilst killing enemies but now it seems that people are now too accurate they potshot from a huge distance and have ridiculous accuracy, I often find myself ducking for cover and scouring for health packs. The update has completly changed AC as i know it

[Huntsman]

"just a question have had several people say the same thing, the flow and smoothness is worse in 1.1 than in 104 is there a reason for this"

Yes, this has been said alot, personally playing the new version i feel like a spastic people are gliding through the air killing me in .1 of a second with the AR, seriously you have to be a god to kill an AR that has already begun firing at you, I know that the AR was designed for burst firing in later versions but people did not use it for that but if i play 1.0.4 the AR can seriously mess you up if the person using it knows how.in AC 1.0.4 i could progress through a map whilst killing enemies but now it seems that people are now too accurate they potshot from a huge distance and have ridiculous accuracy, I often find myself ducking for cover and scouring for health packs. The update has completly changed AC as i know it

+1

Mod edit: user warned for useless post - see forum rules #19

[Lumpaz]

now ive played a while; indeed the recoil is not that bad -altough it could be just a bit less-. The spread in indeed worse, makes the duel more random which is not a good thing. It should be about skill not about luck.

I agree with seagal, there is something irritating with the SMG as compared to what it was in 1.0.4. If you were good with your aim in 1.0.4, you could keep the mouse button down and track your opponent and be almost sure he was gone for good. Now if you do exactly the same, you most certainly lose much more bullets due to the increasing spread, and your clip gets empty before your opponent goes down... leaving him time to kill you while you are reloading.
I understand that the increasing spread means you should now shoot in bursts, but damage from the SMG is too low as compared to the AR or shotgun for example, and if you shoot in bursts you lose time between bursts and get more easily killed by an AR or a shotgun player, who only need a few shots to get you.
Maybe the increasing spread in continuous shooting increases a bit too much to be good.

[seagal]

"and if you shoot in bursts you lose time between bursts and get more easily killed by an AR or a shotgun player, who only need a few shots to get you."
Acs really isnt made for shooting in with bursts, even with the AR now you have more chance getting a kill emptying you whole clip instead of shooting in bursts.

[titiPT]

Now smg just doesn't hit that much.

[JMM]

I love the new SMG. The 1.04 SMG is like holding an angry cat in your hands.

[Shorty]

One thing i find weird about 1.1 is that sometimes you hear the bullets hit/go past you and then others you don't, makes it impossible to tell where a player shot you from at a distance..

[#M|A#Wolf]

After you find the way to control 1.1's SMG it's a damn beauty :D

[V-Man]

i still think its abit much to aim from far distance.

That is as it should be. The SMG was made for players who, like me, revel in close combat and in-your-face confrontation in-game. To pick off players at a distance with an SMG requires more skill than normal (and if you had that much skill, you'd probably make an awesome sniper anyway), so we can concentrate on other, more useful tasks like clearing a pathway for CTF runners and combating shotgun corner campers. Let snipers and AR gunners concentrate on distance fights.

[Elite]

The smg spread is too big , you won´t beat a good AR player.
In compare to 1.0.4 , you shoot with smg at your enemy and he died after 12-15 bullets, now you need in this cases more than 20 bullets,in heavier fights very often 1 magazine isnt enough to frag your enemy.

After 1.0.4 got a bit to easy for me, because there werent anymore many pro players online, i started trying the AR in 1.0.4.. Well, it went fine, its just a good 1-man killing machine and now the AR is better than the 1.0.4 smg. With this left-right-left step the AR frags you so fast, that the smg hasnt any chance.
With sniper you need a hit and a good pistol to win a fight. Against AR on a short range, you dont have any chance to shoot twice.
More players are going to try the new carabine instead of staying with sniper.

Well, the shotgun is a bit too strong, you have a chance to win your fight, but in puplic games, its so annoying to get caught by this shotguns. It destroy the funny game.

Get the old smg and sniper back to make it balanced to the new AR and shotgun and please get back the old graphic. Its feels smaller (a better quality) but the same settings.

Well, the nade spam got stopped through the 1-nade pickups, but let them count like a headshot (2).

[seagal]

"That is as it should be. The SMG was made for players who, like me, revel in close combat and in-your-face confrontation in-game. To pick off players at a distance with an SMG requires more skill than normal (and if you had that much skill, you'd probably make an awesome sniper anyway), so we can concentrate on other, more useful tasks like clearing a pathway for CTF runners and combating shotgun corner campers. Let snipers and AR gunners concentrate on distance fights. " that might all be true but my point is that the recoil of the smg AND the ar, makes long distances fight uselss and centers the whole game on close range fights, which are -because of lag and the big spread- getting quite random. In far range fight are to slow, therefor if your losing you still have lots of time to turn back in retreath. This all making it much more effencient to only have close quater fight. And because 90% procent of the fight is close combat the snipers role is getting smaller aswell. And yeah id be an awesome sniper indeed. And its ridiculus that you can unload a whole clip at a enemy 20 ft away and hit 5 bullets.

[Blue_Pr!nt]

well pro elite from LC i think can use SMG on fairly long ranges, he is very good much better then me in that regard but as a sniper he is nothing special and my smg can mow him down. @seagal RE: smg long distance

[tipper|DES|]

Well, well, surprised to you (seagal) on the forums offering advice…..
Even more surprised to read the hints and advice you’re giving.
Kind of expected you to advise players to use the tactics you did…..cheat.

[seagal]

Get over it, i never cheated. To be honest i just give advice what i think would make the game better. And i think i my knowlegde could be used since i am quite experienced in fps and was one of the bests ac players when i played -yeah really arrogant-. But its up to you if you believe me or not. And imo the game needs improvements; there`s a reason why almost all good players and clans are gone.