My Thoughts. Would like input.

[pweaks]

How will a new player get to know the competitive/regular scene if the only thing he meets ingame are seemingly superb aliases that he will most likely never see again. Also noobs are very rarely accepted in inters, they usually consist of mid-skilled players and above only.

A very good point. 

What I was thinking the other day was that the majority of the players that were in the competitive scene 3-5 years ago were all kids in high school, like myself. Back then, there wasn't really too many obligations. These kids are now adults and studying in universities, colleges or working nine to five jobs. There's simply not enough time to manage leagues, tournaments and cups. I feel like the torch didn't pass on to the next generation of Cubers.

 

[G1gantuan]

Robtics made some very valid points. In such a low-population game like Assaultcube, it can be very hard for newbies to get into the competitive scene, and perhaps a bit intimidating. They don't know where to start, and most of them aren't even acquainted with competitive players like myself. I just started playing this game again last two months ago, but my actual date of birth is somewhere three years ago. I think that I got interested in the pubbie scene last year. I wanted to experiment with the players you see from pubs. It took me quite a while to find someone capable of communication, but when I asked them if they wanted to learn, they pretty much agreed instantly. I taught them how to follow players, and the password for match servers. There I taught them the basics of competition, and the essential technical know-hows that are often unheeded. I believe that I've had this session over 5 times, and one of my first five also happens to be the creator of our clan. Hipster, GoW.

Basing upon my experiences, the guys you often see in inters are most likely experienced players that have played this game for at least two years. Unless you have a show-off attitude like myself, then it's not often that they would be infuriated at your poor performances. Can pubbies match these people? They definitely can, but it's a slow, gradual development that requires some slight of discipline.

The worst cases are the pubbies that haven't even played Counter Strike, knowing only the existence of Assaultcube. Many know that Counter Strike is a highly competitive game, and it also happens to be great fun for casuals as well. CS was the first FPS and computer game that I've ever played, and I loved it; dishing out at least 200 hours on LAN bots alone. (I actually never played online). Then I got bored and found Assaultcube, which I also got bored of. Then I happened to stumble upon the site called Kongregate, where you could find plently of browser-based FPSes. It continued from there. This was my adventure in 2011. I started using computers 5 years ago... I believe.

Where do they think should they begin? You can try to follow the thought processes of a newbie, and one of the most popular self-suggestions is to engage in clan activity.

All in all, I'd like to contribute to this cause by creating my own thread in the form of a tutorial for competitive play. That brings several more questions into the equation, but the most troublesome matter is whether or not the pubbies actually read the forums at all. I should try to interact with those guys more.

[Nightmare]

AC's pubs are mostly tosok/lss/camper/gema. Rookies see the game online, download it and get something much worse. It takes them a week to hit #1 on the camper server for a game, and they get bored and leave.
#iron-fist-masterserver

[Waffles]

The tutorial idea is great, please dont spread misinformation though.

[Robtics]

Nightmare:

If regulars would actually jump over their own shadow for once.. good map/mode combinations are possible and do get played. even now.
It's stupid to think its the dev's job and duty to maintain the modes/maps servers offer.. its the server owners and communities job to provide a decent choice of maps etc. but this doesnt happen as many regulars hide in match servers or behind an alias and do not even try to join&fill up empty servers - usually they do in 1-5 minutes and you got a good pub going.

Now I cant tell how it looks in your timezone (actually I have no idea where you are from .. US I think?) but in my timezone there are usually atleast 2-3 servers offering CTF on official/decent custom maps and I honestly dont see whats wrong with LSS/TOSOK ac_douze, after all thats AC too and often enough its possible to vote a CTF through with players who prefer those combinations too.

the tutorial idea is good but how many of the noobs find or get to know about this place if they dont look for it themselves? its also the communities job to be present ingame and give starting points for noobs.

g1gantuan: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-35.html before you load yourself up with an awfull lot of work read this and maybe figure out whats missing or can be updated instead of writing a completly new guide? just a suggestion xD

[G1gantuan]

I also plan to make my thread a cooperative one; if you guys ever feel like adding anything to it, then by all means do so. Also, my guide will give out completely different pointers the likes you won't see in an actual in-game guide. That guide is for Assaultcube itself, but mine has a lot more to offer in the general side of things.

[DamDam]

What I was thinking the other day was that the majority of the players that were in the competitive scene 3-5 years ago were all kids in high school, like myself. Back then, there wasn't really too many obligations. These kids are now adults and studying in universities, colleges or working nine to five jobs. There's simply not enough time to manage leagues, tournaments and cups. I feel like the torch didn't pass on to the next generation of Cubers.

This 100%
Thats it really, I've talked about in my previous wall of text post on another thread but its summed up here.
There are no new players to replace those who left or cant play as much.
Back in 0.93 when Drakas, tenshi, Majikal, impakt were at their peak
Or later on when ech0, Sanzo, Undead, LC, IAF were on the top of the game.

See, I wasnt around the competitive side when all of that happened, but I know about it because there was always people who were talking about it and passing the torch.
The game did not stop when those "AC Legends" left. In fact, the game progressed, evolved and changed into what it was in 1.1, which was arguably AC at its popularity peak.

The problem we have now is that the game hasnt changed (no need to repeat again, blabla devs narrow minded etc..) and newer players did not stay.
Was the game not attractive? Not innovative? Not bringing enough opportunities for newcomers?

Whatever the answer to those questions are, it doesnt matter now because pubs are empty and the AC playerbase hasnt been renewed. Unless it gets a kick in (Steam might help), i doubt a game like AC can attract masses of people out of nowhere..
If the Steam option goes through however, I suggest we should have AC development renewed and new things implemented so that newcomers dont join an unpleasant and non-appealing game...

Again, I'm afraid it really is too late because the ones that once cared enough to try to help are gone, and those who remain here dont have nearly as much time to dedicate to AC as they used to..
So... Who's gonna do the work now? :/

[bballn45]

The game did not stop when those "AC Legends" left. In fact, the game progressed, evolved and changed into what it was in 1.1, which was arguably AC at its popularity peak.

Anyone that thinks that 1.1 was the peak of AC never played an earlier version. 1.1 is what ruined the game in my opinion. Over time, the version grew on me but most people were not as patient which resulted in them finding another game or just moving on.

Pweaks is 100% right, people play this game in high school and then in college, they decide to move on and what not. I'm not sure that a tutorial would do much because who actually reads them? I have personally never read a tutorial for the 100's of games I've played.

I am sure the devs are more worried about releasing the next version at the moment but help us all out and state what you are willing and not willing to do as far as Steam. I am sure plenty of people are willing to help, just ask and let us discuss Assault Cube's future. There is no point of a bunch of non developers to discuss this alone because we are not gonna do much as far as changing the game. Most of us can only offer our opinion and I beg you guys to listen to everybody's. You guys are the leaders of this game, take control of it and let everyone in the community come to a possible agreement to better this game.

[Marti]

 IAF were on the top of the game.
The game did not stop when those "AC Legends" left.

Hi, i'm still here.


Stats say most downloads were in October 2010 with 212,274 downloads. Not entirely sure which version that would've been.

[Honor]

Stop saying bullshit. 1.0.4 was the best version and we all miss it.

[Vanquish]

Stop saying bullshit. 1.0.4 was the best version and we all miss it.

never played 1.04. i miss 1.1 though. :/

There is no point of a bunch of non developers to discuss this alone because we are not gonna do much as far as changing the game. Most of us can only offer our opinion and I beg you guys to listen to everybody's. You guys are the leaders of this game, take control of it and let everyone in the community come to a possible agreement to better this game.

this 10000%

I'll also admit that I've never read a tutorial for a game before either, although I've watched some livestreams/videos that offer analysis and tips on gameplay. I think AC's community is far too small to necessitate streaming, but would tutorials in video format be any better? I feel like even though this idea may seem menial to some, anyone who voted for the "something should be done" option on the poll and actually took their vote seriously should at least be open to the idea of contributing something, however small - if it's pieces of code or maps or servers or tutorials or w/e. Everyone on this forum always talks about saving this game or how AC needs a new playerbase but if we want that new playerbase to stick around then we need to give them a reason to. Most people come and then go again before they've even had a chance to get attracted to the game the way many of us long-term players did. If they could be exposed to the many interesting aspects of the game and not just what's seen at face value (a graphically outdated arcade shooter) then I'm sure more people would stick around.

[DamDam]

Stats say most downloads were in October 2010 with 212,274 downloads. Not entirely sure which version that would've been.

Stop saying bullshit. 1.0.4 was the best version and we all miss it.

Yea, my bad, I remember the game being at its active peak around when i joined, which was during summer 2010, and Honor is correct, it was 1.0.4 still.
I remember the 1.1 changes and the new helmet, carbine etc...
But even in 1.1, the game was super active as far as i remember!

What Vanq wrote is true, if we give newcomers the opportunity to discover and have fun in AC (goes through official tourneys/ladders, TOSOK and random maps, sry devs), then im sure they'd stay for the same reasons we still are here today : cuz we like the game.

I dont really know what would be the best way to revive AC's development but I'm pretty sure rebuilding the dev team with motivated community members applying for what they are good at and can help for, would be a great start.

[Robtics]

my memory might be completly fooling me right now but as far as I remember there was somekind of broadcast/message on the MS that announced the release of 1.0?

I think thats how I got to know about it as I didnt know of the forums/clans/ladders on 0.93

Could that be used to promote events like the Christmas Cup, 1v1 Tourney etc.? Or am I just remembering compete bullshit, I really dont know :D

[Boomhauer]

The forum is white. I'm pretty sure the AC apocalypse just started.

My eyes are already bleeding. Rip

https://userstyles.org/styles/47391/midn...lternative

---

Stop saying bullshit. 1.0.4 was the best version and we all miss it.

not really. good for nade spamming and easy headshots, and big egos. but I can't sit here and act like those days weren't awesome

---

The forum is white. I'm pretty sure the AC apocalypse just started.

My eyes are already bleeding. Rip

https://userstyles.org/styles/47391/midn...lternative

Stop saying bullshit. 1.0.4 was the best version and we all miss it.

not really. good for nade spamming and easy headshots, and big egos. but I can't sit here and act like those days weren't awesome

JESUS THIS FORUM SUDDENLY BECAME EXTREMELY ANNOYING! Sorry for the triple post, unintentional. UGH!!!!!

[G1gantuan]

hmm i don't think it's ok to make triple posts like dis

should we continue this thread

[Boomhauer]

hmm i don't think it's ok to make triple posts like dis

should we continue this thread

Jumped right on that one didn't you d-bag? I was in the middle of apologizing and reporting myself as a spammer to get rid of them... but gj gj

[G1gantuan]

k thx

but i'm kind of interested in older versions of ac now. i heard that we couldn't even crouch and jump before... that's hardcore like doom, quite exotic yes

[Undead]

Stop saying bullshit. 1.0.4 was the best version and we all miss it.

not really. good for nade spamming and easy headshots, and big egos. but I can't sit here and act like those days weren't awesome

110% true, i thought i was the only person who recognised this. even in 1.0 i was saying that everyone would quit when the game became less gimmicky and more skillful. there are a number of reasons as for why 1.0 was the most popular version, but the balance definitely isn't one of them.

But even in 1.1, the game was super active as far as i remember!

trying to find a CM in 1.1 was like running into a steel pole over and over again.

[Idioplex]

Well I've been out of the loop for awhile but I'd much rather have AC thrive than die. I haven't read all the posts but I'd have to agree with bballn45 about feeder clans. I've seen quite a few cases where new low level clans and ladders give a little life back to the community. I remember back when I played AC religiously there were always a few "New clan here" threads popping up once a week. That's how I got so involved in the game myself.

And while I understand where people are coming from when they think a graphical/engine overhaul is the most effective way to attract new players, I have to disagree. It may be true that the low system requirements of AC are no longer a necessity, but I think AC's "simple and clean" approach is still a huge asset; nothing is flashy or distracting, everything is clear and defined, and there's enough detail available to convey the atmosphere of a map. I actually really enjoy AC's minimalist aesthetic. AC's graphics aren't the best but they're not dated to the point where it's distracting--but admittedly that's a little subjective.

[NoArmZ]

I shoot stuff and it go boom and it is fun.

[G1gantuan]

I shoot stuff and it go boom and it is fun.

you would have loved the times when Douze CTF was still a thing. I don't remember what version that was but the game still had somewhat of a tolerable population, you didn't play with the same 10 people over and over again... but maybe they were just intent on aliasing. Because of this map and mode, I actually deluded myself into thinking that the carbine was a strong weapon. 

EDIT:
"a graphical/engine overhaul is the most effective way to attract new players"

I think that this idea is fallacious due to the fact that there probably are hundreds of other FPSes in steam that would probably still have better graphics than this game no matter how much of it is revamped. If they do go through with this however, I see the slim possibility of pay2get objects like HATZ being implemented.

An old car like Assaultcube can only drive slowly and steadily for now. New cars can take bigger risks... and some of them are successful.

I do kind of like AC'S gameplay, though. I'm sure there's still a lot to improve on.

[NoArmZ]

Sometimes i fall and go boom i lyke dat too u no. but it all about the bang bang don diggity.

[G1gantuan]

Sometimes i fall and go boom i lyke dat too u no. but it all about the bang bang don diggity.

k

you should be the game's advertiser. with that impeccable english of yours, you'd make an excellent journalist. AC might even appear on the news papers, then we'll finally have an FPS that's more popular than CS:GO, and then Vermi will finally stop playing that for good and his skills will eventually come back to when he used to be the best in dis game 

jokes aside i heard that CS:GO finally implemented hats. if this is true then all chances for AC's revival are gone

[Idioplex]

Yeah. I don't see the need to change AC's graphics. If you look at CrossFire, which is supposedly the most profitable FPS game in South Korea, it's graphics are nothing special. Another alternative to Steam would be GOG (Good Old Games), a site that specializes in the sales of classic and indie games. Warsow is available there, so I don't see why AC would be out of the question. The benefit of having AC released there would be that we'd be targeting people less likely to be turned off by a lack of eye candy. I don't know a lot about the submission process, but they seem like they're incredibly supportive of indie developers.

[Boomhauer]

...

[Boomhauer]

Yeah. I don't see the need to change AC's graphics. If you look at CrossFire*

Crossfire? Yeah well some indie style games get more popular than others for other reasons. The "purists" may prefer a less impressive graphical environment, so maybe the spectrum of graphics should just be minimum as they are capable of now, but allowing the user to choose a higher possible graphical presence. This, to me is the very significant point that "reasonable" "purists"" can't really argue with. The ability to choose can be a positive influence on the AC community and friendly competition. Win-Win-Win

..Devs, problem in your site code: please remove the ability to click "reply" in the post editing page

[Idioplex]

Reducing the number of clans? It may lead to some of the more established clans fighting real hard for supremacy but an influx of newer clans could actually get people from public games to participate in the community. Having more clans would make tournaments and clan matches in general more accessible. And I think being in a clan adds a sense of duty to the game; there's that extra bit of importance when you know wins and losses are tracked and progress is measurable as a team improves. I think more clans, regardless of skill level, can only be a good thing.

EDIT: Post I was replaying to disappeared. :P

I agree, Boomhauer. But to what extent can AC's visuals be improved without having to rebuild the entire game on a new engine? (This is an actual question--I don't mean to sound as if I'm saying it's impossible) Like I said, it's subjective, but AC's max settings look pretty good to me. Of course I don't have high graphical standards to begin with, but I do play new, pretty games as well.

But I really do think encouraging competition and clans is a great may to get a more dedicated population going.

[Boomhauer]

...

Under the HQ element are from 2 to 4 SEAL Platoons of 16 (2 officers, 14 enlisted SEALs) and support staff. Each SEAL Platoon can be structured into 8-man squads or 4-man fire teams for operational purposes. The size of each SEAL “Team” with Task Units and support staff is approximately ( ) personnel ( of whom are “shooters.”)


Task Unit core skills include: Sniper, Breacher, Communicator, Maritime/Engineering, Close Air Support, Medical, Point-man/Navigator, Primary Driver/Navigator (Rural/Urban/Protective Security), Heavy Weapons Operator, Sensitive Site Exploitation, Air Operations Master, Lead Climber, Lead Diver/Navigator, Explosive Ordnance Disposal, and Technical Surveillance.

(Wikipedia)

Marine Corps[edit]

Rifle Company

• Company Headquarters
  
  • Company Commander (Commanding Officer/CO) – Captain (O-3)
    
  • Executive Officer (XO) – usually a First Lieutenant (O-2)
    
  • First Sergeant (1stSgt, E-8)
    
  • Gunnery Sergeant (GySgt, E-7)
    
  • Property NCO (Sgt, E-5)
    
  • Messenger/Driver (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
    
  
  
  
• Rifle Platoon (3)
  
  • Platoon Headquarters
    • Platoon Commander – Lieutenant (O-1/2)
      
    • Platoon Sergeant – Staff Sergeant (E-6)
      
    • Platoon Guide – Sergeant (E-5)
      
    • Messenger – (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
      
  • Rifle Squad (3)
    • Squad Leader – Sergeant (E-5)
      
    • Fire Team (3)
      • Team Leader/Grenadier – Corporal (E-4)
        
      • Automatic Rifleman – Lance Corporal (E-3)
        
      • Assistant Automatic Rifleman – (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
        
      • Rifleman/Scout – (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
        
  
  
  
  
• Weapons Platoon
  
  • Platoon Headquarters
    • Platoon Commander – usually a First Lieutenant (O-2)
      
    • Platoon Sergeant – Gunnery Sergeant (E-7)
      
  • Machine Gun Section (6 – M240G 7.62mm general-purpose machine guns)
    • Section Leader – Staff Sergeant (E-6)
      
    • Machine Gun Squad (3)
      • Squad Leader – Sergeant (E-5)
        
      • Machine Gun Team (2)
        • Team Leader – Corporal (E-4)
          
        • Gunner – Lance Corporal (E-3
          
        • Ammunition Man – (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
          
  • LWCMS Mortar Section (3 – M224 60mm Light Weight Company Mortar Systems)
    • Section Leader – Staff Sergeant (E-6)
      
    • Mortar Squad (3)
      • Squad Leader/Gunner – Corporal (E-4)
        
      • Assistant Gunner – Lance Corporal (E-3)
        
      • Ammunition Man (2) – (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
        
  • Assault Section (6 – Mk153 SMAW Shoulder launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon launchers)
    • Section Leader – Sergeant (E-5)
      
    • Assault Squad (3)
      • Squad Leader/Team Leader/Gunner – Corporal (E-4)
        
      • Team Leader/Gunner – Lance Corporal (E-3)
        
      • Assistant Gunner (2) – (Pvt-LCpl, E-1/3)
        
  
  
  
  
  
• Attachments (notional, dependent upon mission and availability)
  
  • Company Medical Team from Medical Platoon, Headquarters and Service Company, Infantry Battalion
    
  • Forward Observer from Fire Direction Center, 81mm Mortar Platoon, Weapons Company, Infantry battalion
    
  • Forward Air Control Party from S-3 Section and Communications Platoon, Headquarters and Service Company, Infantry Battalion
    
  • Forward Observer Team from the Battalion's Direct Support 155mm Howitzer Battery, Artillery Battalion
    
  • Dining Facility Team from Dining Facility Section, Service Platoon, Headquarters and Service Company, Infantry Battalion
    
  • Heavy Machine Gun Squad/Section (M2HB .50 cal.BMG and/or Mk 19 40mm AGL) from Heavy Machine Gun Platoon, Weapons Company, Infantry Battalion
    
  • Javelin Squad (4 – FGM-148 Javelin Anti-Tank Missile launchers) from Javelin Section, Antiarmor Platoon, Weapons Company, Infantry Battalion
    
  • Antitank (TOW) Squad (2 – BGM-71 Tube launched, Optically tracked, Wire command link guided missile launchers) from Antitank (TOW) Section, Antiarmor Platoon, Weapons Company, Infantry Battalion
    
  • Amphibious Assault Vehicle (AAV) Platoon (12 – AAV-7 Amphibious Assault Vehicles) from the Battalion's Direct Support AAV Company/Battalion
    
  • Tank Section/Platoon (2/4 M1A2 Main Battle Tanks) from the Battalion's Direct Support Tank Company/Battalion
    
  • Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) Platoon (4 LAV-25 Light Armored Reconnaissance Vehicles) from the Battalion's Direct Support LAR Company/Battalion
    
  • Other Ground Combat Element assets as required (e.g., Scout Sniper, Reconnaissance, Combat Engineer, etc.)
    
• (Wikipedia)

Which of these military units would you be prouder to say you are a part of?
Also* as far as the game being able to be better without the engine needing to be changed, idk. I'm definitely dumb in that area. (and most others)

[Nightmare]

I'd rather have 8 large, active clans, than 20 clans, 95% inactive.

:(

[Idioplex]

I see your guys' points and I also agree that the game's better off having a few active clans than a few dozen inactive clans. But I do think encouraging clan creation could be beneficial if it was handled properly. These are just ideas of course, and this might come off as a little far fetched, but what if clans were more regulated? Could a certain level of community participation/in-game activity be enforced to keep the everyone up to speed on what clans are doing? So instead of a heap of one-week clans coming in all the time and disintegrating without notice, we could track activity and require a member of supposed clan to make a forum post every now and then to continue to be recognized as an actual clan? It sounds a bit authoritarian, but I think it comes down to structure and organization. Once a foundation is in place it would be easier to organize events and brackets with different skill groups and whatnot. I'm not saying that AC would be bustling if all the pub players decided to make their own clan. But I do think that if the community is able to foster the growth of actual clans, AC's situation would improve. Logically speaking, I think it's fair to say that exclusivity kills games and that having a small selection of very competitive clans amidst a sea of random pub players isn't encouraging the growth of the game.

In short: Structure encourages competition, competition gives people a reason to stay and play.