Can devS to make concessions and to ease restrictions in simulation maps in future?

[pufig]

(Hopefully) interested height maps and number munitions and place of stay of each other's flags,is now virtually impossible with such strong limitations to come up with something worthwhile and long-playable. JUST write YES or NO.. keep your floodFlash to another topic please

[jamz]

I gave pufig an answer in IRC, but I don't think he was happy with it.
It's wrong to say that the limitations make producing a playable, worthwhile map virtually impossible. Good maps are being produced. Maps that were produced before the restrictions were put in place can be converted to work with them.
What is harder is producing an online-playable map quickly. Mappers now have to put a little bit more thought and time into layout, pickup placement, and flag placement. That's all.

[Ronald_Reagan]

I think we need to define good first before we can get an accurate answer.

[Alien]

Definitions limits a creativity, ideas and mapping space. I like AC for freedom in expressing your ideas instead of full filling someone's imaginations. Be free to keep the definitions of default package but don't limit custom package. If default package need a bit support, solve it in serverlist. The restrictions erased some ideas from your game.

[Morrigan]

es ist wahr! das spiel ist langweilig ,unfunny kartens! blasen kartens x( obwohl.. das geht mir am arsch vorbei

[titiPT]

HOW DARE YOU TO INSITNUATE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO LET OUR CRIATIVITY FLOW?

why should we be forced to play in good maps?
why can't i play in a 1km (take your time converting it to cubes) long map?

[makkE]

The restrictions are not limiting creativity. What they limit is senseless (to AC engine and gameplay) maps, wich involve jumping off a tall building or sniping over a mile as their primary gameplay factor.

By the way: Restrictions have never hindered creativity in art, in some cases, they even encourage creativity.

The only case in wich restrictions for a map might be lifted is if the map happens to play and perform properly, yet does break a limit or two. This may happen, though very unlikely. In that case, we would decide on a case-by-case basis.

Should anyone manage to make a map that includes long range sniping without dragging the fps of 75% of our playerbase down to the ground, I would be happy to make an exeption. But the design of the cube engine will most definately not allow this.

What mappers have to understand is, that this is not your usual fps engine. It works a little diffrently from all other fps engines out there. Thus, it demands for a certain style in mapping, that suits the engine's technical limits.

The original cube game was designed to accomodate tight indoor maps, such as found in quake for example. If you want to snipe for miles, play or map for TacOps or similar games.

Soldado: Ganz toller Beitrag!

[jamz]

Goodness me! Why the animosity? I make the effort to answer the guy's question, and I get a trip down memory lane with the old comments we've seen in previous threads. I never said he couldn't map. I never said he couldn't be creative. I never said he had to make maps that look like complex/depot/desert/power/mines clones. I just said that the dev team probably wouldn't ease the restrictions. They might anyway; who truly knows the future?

Definitions limits a creativity, ideas and mapping space.

Did The A-Team ever complain that being locked in a warehouse llimited their creativity? No, their creativity was enhanced by their limited resources and they busted out and kicked the bad guys' butts. Stop moaning and create a butt-kicking map for heavens' sake!

[titiPT]

I apologise for reacting so wildly jamz, nothing personal.

The restrictions are not limiting creativity. What they limit is senseless (...) maps

Senseless to whom?

[Alien]

http://www.acka.tk/ac_magic-school1.cgz (left click, download)
Is this map senseless? (btw i think for FPS player who disable texture, fix lights by scripts, disable texture of mapmodels it is really senseless :/, since about creativity)

Why protect only one type of gameplay ? What is wrong if noob will learn jump in some gema instead of ac_complex ? If noob will learn zoom and snipe in big map instead of quick ac_shine?

engine limitations:
there is no real limitations, you get just low FPS even with water or high details, of if you have /maxfps, but ofc the majority should be small maps which have good perform and everybody who enter, receive positive feeling. For example i have seen huge RPG map in Cube2, ofc it lags as hell but it was in default maps.

@jamz
it isn't about my creating, my maps passed through limitations in first try

[Mael]

It's really not necessary to make more of these threads. If a particular person wants clarity on the decisions made to preserve sensible gameplay they can ask any one of dozens of people on IRC.

If you have an issue with the definition of "sensible" or "senseless" you can take it up with your dictionary and the docs.

It's silly that even with thread after thread about the same topic there are people who insist on starting a new thread to have the same discussion and find the same answers that are all over this forum already. Granted this thread is mildly different as it is asking for compromise I presume.

[Zarjio]

I think the problem with the current restrictions is that they are not ideal.
I presume the idea behind the restrictions is primarily to keep all maps playable, and that trying to force mappers to make good maps is a secondary objective. In that case, a better way to tell if a map is playable or not would be to survey the map for WQD, LOD, etc, and see if it fits within reasonable standards. After all, a very long, empty hallway, with no detailing is not very hard computationally to output, whereas an extremely detailed large space is.
On the other hand, if the map restrictions are an attempt to keep 'bad' maps from being constructed, then I am afraid they have not helped that much: yes, we don't have absolutely horrendous maps with over 9000 pickups and an arena the size of a country, but mappers can still create poorly textured, poorly laid out, etc maps.

Have any of you ever been on great_wall_of_china (or named something like that), made by one of the 40+ crew? It lags terribly. My FPS fell to something like 5. I would never play on the map.
That being said, it is absolutely beautiful, and I can greatly appreciate the amount of effort that went into making such a huge map. It's fun to just take a look around on it and explore the map.

Developers, perhaps we should allow server owners to decide whether or not to enable restrictions on their servers? Just a thought. Even keep such servers off the masterserver, but I think this would go a long ways towards smoothing things over with the community.

[V-Man]

I figured that was being catered to with the "keep 1.0" movement.

[Jomattix]

Posted by makkE- What they limit is senseless (to AC engine and gameplay) maps, wich involve jumping off a tall building or sniping over a mile as their primary gameplay factor.

If these things were "senseless" to the AC engine then surely the engine would not allow them to occur, the AC engine does not find these things as "senseless" due to the fact that it clearly recognises and processes the data input of these things.
Why not build in a hight drop limit thus causing damage / death from falling too far or making weapons loose accuracy over long distance? (btw 1km is not far by rifle standards)
Now if this is not possible to include these restrictions within the AC engine then it then must be said that such things are deemed senseless by some people not the game engine. Likewise if it is possible to include such functions then is it not senseless for the designers to overlook doing so if they think these limits should apply thus ending these endless arguments once and for all!?!

[V-Man]

The engine has the capability of being stretched, but when that stretching causes highly uneven ground for different players on different machines (some FPS drop to 3 on a map, while others stay pretty good), the evenness needs to be brought back using direct means.
Consider this little workaround... Is the engine meant to do that? No. But it certainly has the capability. If this were implemented on everyone's client in a map, half of the players would be able to deal with it, and half would find the map unplayable.
Moved to a more appropriate section.

[Zarjio]

If these things were "senseless" to the AC engine then surely the engine would not allow them to occur

The engine isn't making decisions on what is 'meaningful' or not.
Clearly a 10 000x10 000 map would be "senseless" but the engine would still try to output it (and probably cause the computer to crash).

[Alien]

+ block part of lagging maps
+ hold gameplay of default maps
-/+ confused new mappers (they must go more deep to mapping with their first try, someone take as +, i don't get why, easer start is everywhere better)
- complication for coop
- reducing space of possible maps
- deleted many old maps
- deleted possible gameplays

[ExodusS]

I'm agree with it but i don't understant this:

-deleted possible gameplays

[Alien]

gameplay is influenced many parameters (pickups placement, layout, frequency of camping spots, levels, size of rooms, size of map, lights, ...), manipulating with these parameters in your map you get specific gameplay

if you will set borders for these parameters, you will border final gameplay too

now are out tennis small lss maps with many pickups, huge maps and long or high maps